Class 379 Miscellanea

[Kingfisher200262]

The latest Railway Herald has a great photo of the new Class 379 EMU on its cover and it's prompted a few questions, which hopefully, someone on here who's well informed can answer: -

1. There appears to be a single lamp on the non-driving side of the front end, at low level (it's about coupler height). Any idea what this is for? I'm guessing that it might be to indicate that one or more of the safety systems is isolated (older units have a blue lamp in the cab window, sometimes set into the destination indicator) and some even older units have a mechanical semaphore. I can't think of any other purpose for this lamp.

2. The auto-coupler appears to be almost flush with the front skirt. Is it retractable? Also, can they couple and inter-work with 317 and / or 321?

3. There seem to be some windows that are reduced height. Any idea why? They look like they might have bodyside destination indicators above them, but that's just a guess.

All knowledge gratefully received.

 

[ainsworth74]

1. There appears to be a single lamp on the non-driving side of the front end, at low level (it's about coupler height). Any idea what this is for?

O L Leigh (who is a Driver on NXEA and the Stansted services) has guessed that its to illuminate the track for the on board camera that checks for track defects. See here.

 

[The_Stig]

The light may be to aid coupling as the couplers are so close to the body/gangway.

 

[Z12XE]

2. The auto-coupler appears to be almost flush with the front skirt. Is it retractable? Also, can they couple and inter-work with 317 and / or 321?

They cant couple with 317,321 as they wouldn't fit together.

There was a disucssion the other day though (cant remember where now, so apologies to O L Leigh if it was him on here) when one sat down at Liverpool Street suggesting that a 360 could move one in an emergency, albeit only at 5mph as they wouldn't be able to work together etc.

 

[Pumbaa]

3. There seem to be some windows that are reduced height. Any idea why? They look like they might have bodyside destination indicators above them, but that's just a guess.

All knowledge gratefully received.

Modular window design, so yes. Some have hoppers, some have hoppers and PIS, some have hoppers and black panel where the PIS should be rather than just a bigger hopper. Obviously the hoppers are non-opening other than by T key.

 

[O L Leigh]

2. The auto-coupler appears to be almost flush with the front skirt. Is it retractable?

If it appears to be flush then it's just a quirk of the photograph, because they aren't.

I wasn't involved in the discussion about Cl379 - Cl360 compatibility. Both classes have Delners so could provide assistance to each other, but I don't know to what extent they might be electrically compatible. I would suggest that they probably aren't and that the reasons for not using a Cl360 to deal with the dead Cl379 was because there would be too many uncertainties about what might happen if they'd tried it. Besides, the Cl379's have not been handed-over yet.

O L Leigh

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Modular window design, so yes. Some have hoppers, some have hoppers and PIS, some have hoppers and black panel where the PIS should be rather than just a bigger hopper. Obviously the hoppers are non-opening other than by T key.

Modular window design to me means that any window fits any hole. Bombardier seem to take the alternative view that if you have a wide variety of window sizes, the customer needs to carry more stock and buy more spares.

 

[Pumbaa]

Modular window design to me means that any window fits any hole. Bombardier seem to take the alternative view that if you have a wide variety of window sizes, the customer needs to carry more stock and buy more spares.

Sorry I should clarify - the situation is the same on their current ribbon window glazing. Row of four windows, both end ones are of the half design. All the gubbins are the same dimension (hopper, PIS, blank panel) so their relevant part is inserted to fit the spec. Thus you have in an Electrostar 8 windows per side, 16 per car, of which 4 (8) are full size, 4 (8) are half size with half of those having PIS slotted above them, the other half having the hopper.

Maybe now for the 379 modular is not the right word!

 

[tbtc]

They cant couple with 317,321 as they wouldn't fit together

I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but what a wasted opportunity this is

 

[slick]

There is a emergency coupling block on each 379 with two seperate pieces, allowing 379's to couple with tightlock 315s and 317s. Only bombardier fitters will be allowed to touch them though. As to what the restrictions will be I would assume only for clearing the line (ie mechnically, and dragged) if a 379 fails and cannot be rescued by another 379.

 

[MCR247]

I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but what a wasted opportunity this is

Is it really though? They are an electrostar, and it makes sense for them to be able to couple them to other electrostars?

 

[klewer]

Is it really though? They are an electrostar, and it makes sense for them to be able to couple them to other electrostars?

Probably not in the area in which they'll be working - it would have made sense to make them work in multiple with 317's as there are no other Electrostars in service on the West Anglia lines. NXEA regularly combine 317's of all subclasses in service, so this loss of flexibility will be noticeable.

 

[tbtc]

Probably not in the area in which they'll be working - it would have made sense to make them work in multiple with 317's as there are no other Electrostars in service on the West Anglia lines. NXEA regularly combine 317's of all subclasses in service, so this loss of flexibility will be noticeable

Agreed.

Southern changed the couplers of their 170s to work with their EMUs (making them 171s in the process).

NXEA are making their fleet more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[jopsuk]

the 379 is using onboard cameras for DOO isn't it (like the 377 and 172, among others)? Perhaps a 317-compatible coupler would not have been able to work with this sytem?

 

[lewisf]

Agreed.

Southern changed the couplers of their 170s to work with their EMUs (making them 171s in the process).

NXEA are making their fleet more complicated than it needs to be.

But they also had the first of their 377's delivered with tightlock couplers so they could emergency couple to a slammer.

(I might be wrong but I've heard a tightlock and a buckeye can couple because the central part is the same shape)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

(I might be wrong but I've heard a tightlock and a buckeye can couple because the central part is the same shape)

I have a photograph somewhere of a 442 coupled to a CIG at Surbiton.

 

[sprinterguy]

I have a photograph somewhere of a 442 coupled to a CIG at Surbiton.

442s and CIGs both have buckeye couplers and conventional buffers, so that’s perfectly feasible.

Perhaps buckeyes can couple to Tightlocks. There must be a reason why some of Southerns’ 377s and South Easterns’ 375s were initially fitted with Tightlocks before the slammers were withdrawn. I’d previously assumed it was because the more modern Electrostar classes could only be produced with Dellner couplers, so the older units were modified to match, but that might very well be wrong as the Turbostars still use Tightlock couplers.

 

[fgwrich]

Agreed.

Southern changed the couplers of their 170s to work with their EMUs (making them 171s in the process).

NXEA are making their fleet more complicated than it needs to be.

Agreed - Would it possibly make more sense in the near future for whover takes on the East Anglian franchise - to have a fleet sort out? Purchase more, dare i say it! 379s, clear out the 315s when Crossrail turns up, and possibly clear out the 360s too...Thus giving a more standardised EMU fleet of :

317,
321,
379
?

 

[90019]

I’d previously assumed it was because the more modern Electrostar classes could only be produced with Dellner couplers, so the older units were modified to match, but that might very well be wrong as the Turbostars still use Tightlock couplers.

Turbostars use BSIs (apart from 171s which have Dellners).

 

[sprinterguy]

Turbostars use BSIs (apart from 171s which have Dellners).

I'd always thought BSIs and Tightlocks were the same thing. Thanks for shedding some light on that matter!

 

[The_Stig]

So has anyone found out what the lower light next to the coupler is?

 

[MCR247]

Yes, in this thread and another thread before, it is for the camera, located in the secondmans cab

 

[The_Stig]

Yes, in this thread and another thread before, it is for the camera, located in the secondmans cab

What I have read it was only a suggestion. There is a picture of it illuminated an image. It was daylight so would not need a light source.

Does this mean that the pantograph camera that was talked about also has a light on it?

 

[slick]

It certainly does, its very noticable aswell. Confused me from a distance

 

[The_Stig]

Ha ha, I imagine it would look like the bat-signal coming from the pantograph. lol.

 

[Hydro]

I wonder if these cameras and the data they produce will end up the same way as the UGMS track geometry systems fitted to the Pendo's and Chiltern units i.e. never used or downloaded.

They will probably be for retrospective analysis of incidents such as dewirements or broken rails rather than any proactive inspection regime.

 

[jopsuk]

Cycling home this evening, heading along the new Addenbrookes access road in Cambridge, saw first of all a 317 heading south (or rather heard- they're really rather noisy beasts!), there was then a train headed north. Out the corner of my eye, it looked a bit odd (for the line), and I quickly realised it was 379. Something I hadn't appreciated- not only is there a camera in the pantograph well, but (and this makes sense) there's a light! Looks very odd having the pantograph illuminated!

 

[O L Leigh]

Yup. Passing one going the other way at night is like driving along Blackpool prom. The thing is just a moving light show.

O L Leigh

 

[jopsuk]

You learning them soon? Will they get fed out onto occasional services ahead of the big launch/timetable changes in May?

 

[O L Leigh]

You learning them soon?

Eventually yes, but probably not for a few weeks yet. If the training follows the schedule that's been posted in the depot I won't be doing it until the end of April.

Will they get fed out onto occasional services ahead of the big launch/timetable changes in May?

No idea. However, they will be an increasingly common sight on driver training runs in the lead up to their introduction into service.

O L Leigh