Class 379 breaks West Anglia Main Line Speed Record

[scotsman]

They both are, actually - have a look at the AC Loco Group site below.

http://www.aclocogroup.co.uk/stock86401.php

Well...oops! Apologies

 

[gazthomas]

Marketing over substance.

A lost opportunity in my view.

 

[Flywaver]

Back in the day i took a 317 from Stansted to Liv St in 29mins... The last one didnt have Tott hale. I should know as i was driving...
Cambridge drivers told me of a pair of 86s that left Cambridge station and were already doing 100mph by Hills Road bridge. Forget your power to weight ratio with some plastic crappy 379.. light locos win every time

 

[Hydro]

I know an ex Colchester driver that spoke very highly of the 86's acceleration. "Notch the first few up to get you moving, then just run up as much as you can without going in the red, then keep the needles there" was basically the technique. I'd hate to see the traction motors at their overhauls. Light engine they'd go like a car.

 

[NSE]

Back in the day i took a 317 from Stansted to Liv St in 29mins... The last one didnt have Tott hale. I should know as i was driving...
Cambridge drivers told me of a pair of 86s that left Cambridge station and were already doing 100mph by Hills Road bridge. Forget your power to weight ratio with some plastic crappy 379.. light locos win every time

I imagine you mean Long Road bridge and not Hills Road bridge, I doubt any loco could achieve 100 mph in less than 100 meters.

 

[Flywaver]

Ooops your right. Long Road bridge

 

[embers25]

Back in the day i took a 317 from Stansted to Liv St in 29mins... The last one didnt have Tott hale. I should know as i was driving...

Aaah happy days when the Stansted Express was actually Express rather than the current "Slow Boat to Stansted" we now have and from December they get slower in peak taking almost an HOUR!!!!

 

[captainbigun]

Cambridge drivers told me of a pair of 86s that left Cambridge station and were already doing 100mph by Hills Road bridge. Forget your power to weight ratio with some plastic crappy 379.. light locos win every time

I hope they weren't 86/6s!!

A pair of 86s or better still a pair of 87s with a reasonable load on the back will still go like stink.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

As a regular user of this route, running any train non-stop at full potential line speed from end to end is nothing short of a miracle!

Trust me, this is more a case of really careful route planning and good luck than exceptional train performance.

I too would like to see 86401 and a rake of Mk IIIs have another bash at this, under the same planning conditions.

Don't get me wrong, sitting in the middle of a 379 vehicle, I'm sure that a comfortable ride was enjoyed by those riding the "record breaking" train. However, for those sat near the vehicle ends, I bet they arrived "shaken, and stirred"!

Give me a Mk III any day.

 

[Bald Rick]

As a regular user of this route, running any train non-stop at full potential line speed from end to end is nothing short of a miracle!

Trust me, this is more a case of really careful route planning and good luck than exceptional train performance.

I too would like to see 86401 and a rake of Mk IIIs have another bash at this, under the same planning conditions.

Don't get me wrong, sitting in the middle of a 379 vehicle, I'm sure that a comfortable ride was enjoyed by those riding the "record breaking" train. However, for those sat near the vehicle ends, I bet they arrived "shaken, and stirred"!

Give me a Mk III any day.

Trust me there was no luck involved, but excellent planning (thanks to a contributor to this forum), quick work by the signallers / control, a great driver, and yes a good train.

The conditions that such runs can be operated under have changed a lot in 20 odd years ... TPWS overspeed sensors, strict adherence to speed limits on the approach to automatic level crossings and those with sighting issues, and platforms with gauging issues. The one thing that hadn't changed since last time was the linespeed profile, in fact it has got slower and a couple of TSRs didn't help.

A loco and MkIIIs is guaranteed not to break the new record. Principally because they're not gauge cleared on part of the route.

 

[captainbigun]

A loco and MkIIIs is guaranteed not to break the new record. Principally because they're not gauge cleared on part of the route.

Traditionally it was Mk2a/b, however Mk3s are cleared to Ely North Jnc, the route the Norwich trains took during the Ipswich tunnel closure a couple of years back.

I've got the timings from 86401's run somewhere, it too was a strict run.

 

[Bald Rick]

Traditionally it was Mk2a/b, however Mk3s are cleared to Ely North Jnc, the route the Norwich trains took during the Ipswich tunnel closure a couple of years back.

I've got the timings from 86401's run somewhere, it too was a strict run.

Not clear Bethnal Green to Coppermill via Hackney; during the Ipswich tunnel work the diversions were MkII only, buffet cars were taken out.

I too have the timings from the old record, and the run was, ahem, not quite so strict in some areas. In fact the 379 only got ahead of the record in the last mile.

 

[captainbigun]

Not clear Bethnal Green to Coppermill via Hackney; during the Ipswich tunnel work the diversions were MkII only, buffet cars were taken out.

I too have the timings from the old record, and the run was, ahem, not quite so strict in some areas. In fact the 379 only got ahead of the record in the last mile.

The relevant Sectional Appendix has Mk3s cleared Bethanal Green East to Bishops Stortford, so something must have changed.

 

[jopsuk]

Wasn't there (still is?) a 50 or 55mph TSR through the junction north of Shelford as well? On what would normally be an 80mph(+?) stretch for anything that wasn't stopped at Shelford.

 

[stanley T]

This sounds like its going to turn into a railway version of top gear.

Cut to Richard Hammond: "The class 86 has devoloped a lead over the desiro, this could be 50 years of pedigree showing through, but wait the desiro can break quicker through the curves, even though the 86 has more power off the line. This could be a close call, with pedantic train spotters forever repeating this moment to bored listeners for years."

On Dave. Do we need a forum equivalent to the "Cool Wall" ?

 

[Flywaver]

Wasn't there (still is?) a 50 or 55mph TSR through the junction north of Shelford as well? On what would normally be an 80mph(+?) stretch for anything that wasn't stopped at Shelford.

Yes its still there Up and Down roads. Line speed is 90mph. However on XC we often get held for FCC.....

 

[O L Leigh]

A few observations:

1) Having spoken to the driver (one of BIS's newer chaps) it was clear that he wasn't told that it was a record attempt, merely that he had to be there on time. Had he known he says he would have attacked the braking points more aggressively in order to save time.

2) Although a Nitwit Rail manager riding shotgun on this train was able to permit the train to exceed the posted linespeeds at certain locations, the train was not permitted to exceed the 20mph TSR at Clapton Junction or the 50mph TSR between Cheshunt Junction and Windmill Lane Crossing. I am aware of the TSR at Shelford, but I believe that this was ignored due to the reason being level crossing sighting and not a track defect (there is a similar 55mph TSR for 'Up' trains at Shepreth Branch Junction).

3) The linespeeds were apparently not as restrictive at the time 86401 set it's record back in the 1980's.

O L Leigh

 

[Flywaver]

OL Leigh. Level Crossing sighting..?
Not saying I don't read my Wons&Pons lol. But that means we are stuck with TSR at Shelford then?

 

[O L Leigh]

Seems to be. That is certainly part of the reason why there are currently so many TSRs along the Lea Valley at the moment.

It does sound like a daft reason to me too, especially as these crossings have been in place for so many years without problem before. I hope they won't become permanent and will be removed once action has been taken to improve sighting and/or install crossing equipment.

We shall see.

O L Leigh

 

[jopsuk]

The Granham Road level crossing is a pain- it's on my route to/from work by bike (avoiding it would be a detour), barriers can easily be down for five minutes (I've timed it) before a train appears. Is it for that one? or is it one of the occupation or user worked ones? I don't understand why the user-worked one where the guided bus bridge is still open- it isn't needed for the farmer (with the fields to the west now being a building site) and for foot/bike/horse traffic there's a lovely (if fairly steep) bridge.

 

[Bald Rick]

The TSRs are all temporary, and all will come off, eventually.

The one at Shepreth Branch Jn is for sighting of Websters FP LX. It should be off by the end of November when the footpath is moved. Most of the other TSRs for LX sighting are on public footpaths and need a footbridge or Miniature Warning lights, so will take time. Unfortunately the railway does not have the power to simply fence off the crossings, so if the local authority does not consent to a temporary closure, the TSR is the only solution.

Whilst the sighting issues on many of the crossings are unchanged since the railway was built, the number and type of users does change. There have been a few incidents at crossings with sighting issues over the past couple of years, and the safety authorities are taking a much harder line as a result.

Back to the thread, the TSR at Shepreth Branch Jn was ignored on the day of the run as the MOM was sent there to warn any prospective users as the train approached.

The driver did a great job, and, (blows trumpet) it was good to see the rail industry coming together to arrange something like this; sadly an all to rare event.

 

[STN commuter]

It's all NX flim flam. Pure PR tosh.

I've commuted daily on the line since 1978, firstly from Audley End & Whittlesford, then since 1997 from Stansted Airport.

I've been on the Fenman when it made Audley End in the high 30 minute timing, and I've done the airport in the mid 30's, when the scheduled timing for pretty much all airport services was 41 minutes!

Someone mentioned the December timetable - my morning airport train will now be scheduled at 53 minutes, and it also now gets extra stops in, as do many more airport services.

And that's one of the much quicker ones - the 06:45 ex airport will now be timed at 56 minutes.

It isn't the "Stansted Express", and hasn't been for many years - it's a commuter train that just happens to go to the airport.

Progress? Pfffft :roll:

 

[jon0844]

56 minutes is NOT worthy of being called 'Express'. That is just taking the ****.

Okay, so there's a need to balance the needs of a few (to the airport) with the many (the commuters) but adding almost 20 minutes to the journey time is stupid.

 

[O L Leigh]

The infrastructure is full. We can't physically fit any more trains down the WA without impacting on timings and service reliability. If we still had the same service we ran 20 years ago then the timings would still be acceptable, but we don't. There is a demand for more trains, more seats and greater capacity and that means trying to get a quart into a pint pot until such time as Nitwit Rail get around to giving us a bit more room.

O L Leigh

 

[STN commuter]

56 minutes is NOT worthy of being called 'Express'. That is just taking the ****.

Okay, so there's a need to balance the needs of a few (to the airport) with the many (the commuters) but adding almost 20 minutes to the journey time is stupid.

Until recently, they used to advertise the journey as being "35 minutes to London" or something similar. In the small print it said "Tottenham Hale". They got hauled over the coals for that :roll:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/08/stansted-posters-banned-journey-time

They are STILL advertising the STEX as "average journey time 46 minutes" - yeah, right :cry:

https://www.stanstedexpress.com/content.asp?SID={37EE48EA-AF19-47E1-B1C4-D6B5350B6B48}&pageid=73

 

[Schnellzug]

Class 379s appear to have broken the GEML catenary now, according to the news today.

 

[43021HST]

On Dave. Do we need a forum equivalent to the "Cool Wall" ?

Ive just realised my mistake, 379s are electrostars not desiros

 

[colchesterken]

was it a class 379 that did the damage? that is good as they have a video of the panto
so they will know what went wrong

mmm.would be fun on u tube

 

[STN commuter]

was it a class 379 that did the damage? that is good as they have a video of the panto
so they will know what went wrong
mmm.would be fun on u tube

Or, more importantly, whose fault it was, and who pays who compensation :roll: