Class 377 Rough riding ?

[Why]

A question for knowledgeable people out there. Not been on a Class 377 ( could be a Class 375?) on the Coastway West line from Worthing to Victoria for a while but always been impressed with the smoothness of the journey.

Yesterday, couldn't believe how rough the ride was right from the start. On getting to Balcombe Tunnel Junction and crossing to the relief line (due to engineering works between there and approx Purley) felt like we didn't need the points - just jumped onto them instead!!

Is this an isolated unit needing a check up a common occurrence or is has the line deteriorated?

 

[bramling]

A question for knowledgeable people out there. Not been on a Class 377 ( could be a Class 375?) on the Coastway West line from Worthing to Victoria for a while but always been impressed with the smoothness of the journey.

Yesterday, couldn't believe how rough the ride was right from the start. On getting to Balcombe Tunnel Junction and crossing to the relief line (due to engineering works between there and approx Purley) felt like we didn't need the points - just jumped onto them instead!!

Is this an isolated unit needing a check up a common occurrence or is has the line deteriorated?

Electrostars have always been a little rough, in particular with quite violent sideways movements. There's plenty of discussion about this in the various class 387 threads.

Not such an issue with the earlier Electrostars as the effect is partially masked by the soft and comfortable seats, but the nasty ironing-board seats combine with the rough ride to make travelling in the newer variants a rather uncomfortable and unpleasant experience. A shame, as personally I find the Electrostar a rather good train all-in-all, just spoiled by the ironing boards.

 

[aleggatta]

Is this an isolated unit needing a check up a common occurrence or is has the line deteriorated?

Honestly, could be either. 377's are getting older, and so is the track, it could be deterioration of some suspension components or it could be the track is showing its age, but if you are concerned about it you should report it, the twitter team are great at passing concerns onto fleet and getting it looked into.

 

[Crossover]

Travelling on a 377 around Arundel a couple of years ago, the ride on it was truly terrible. The way it was rocking and rolling, you'd have thought we were motoring on at some speed, but I think GPS suggested it was around 60mph!

 

[LLivery]

I often think this in the Earlswood/Salfords area. But it seems to be individual 377s as one day is ok, the next its very rough. I don't think I've experienced rougher points than there.

 

[Fincra5]

377's don't have the best ride. However the pointwork where you crossed over at Balcombe Tunnel Junction is very rough regardless of traction. Needs a proper fix like Stoats Nest (Purley)

 

[a_c_skinner]

From delivery I've thought on my occasional 377 rides that they were good on plain track but not points and crossings.

Andrew

 

[387star]

They come across generally as a train made on the cheap ride depends where you sit etc sometimes very bouncy going over crossings especially

A 158 or 442 has better ride

They are showing their age generally now... Squeaky tables and velcro showing where seat covers have slipped doesn't help

 

[GW43125]

You think that's bad, try the Up Southampton to Up Fast at Worting Jn: 90mph!

 

[pompeyfan]

You think that's bad, try the Up Southampton to Up Fast at Worting Jn: 90mph!

That's not actually a bad stretch of track, certainly I can think of much worse places, between Haslemere and Wiltey, as well as the Up fast around weybridge is particularly bad.

 

[FOH]

A coupled end is the worst I've found

 

[Steveman]

I agree not the most comfortable ride at all.

 

[physics34]

as mentioned before they sway and the dampers for horizontal movement are not very good it seems (or they need renewing more often).

Maybe they feel quite bad because of the quality of seating. Sprung seats on slam door trains were basically "secondary suspension".

 

[AM9]

as mentioned before they sway and the dampers for horizontal movement are not very good it seems (or they need renewing more often).

Maybe they feel quite bad because of the quality of seating. Sprung seats on slam door trains were basically "secondary suspension".

Soggy seats don't help much with poorly controlled sideways shock. I haven't had any problems with class 700s when they go through the Mill Hill wiggles at 100mph or the Slow to fast ladders on the MML at the 50mph limit. The 700s seem to have very effective lateral damping. It always felt that the 377s (and brand new 387s) had plenty of power but handled like 75mph stock running too fast.
Still, the Electrostars have nearly all gone from Thameslink so they won't be a problem much longer.
I can't remember how the LM class 172s ran on the Worcester services a couple of years ago, but it should be interesting to try the Flexx ECO bogies on class 345s when they finally reach mainline speeds.

 

[Sparks807Evo]

I can't remember how the LM class 172s ran on the Worcester services a couple of years ago, but it should be interesting to try the Flexx ECO bogies on class 345s when they finally reach mainline speeds.

The Flexx ECO rides very well - far better than the bogie they use for the Electrostars. Copes far better at the higher speeds and dealing with 'rougher' track. Also does well on pointwork - the 220s also use it and again yet to complain about it.

The 168-171 BREL (I believe?) bogie does a decent job - again, find it more secure and comfortable at speed and dealing with jolts etc. Can at times on a more severe bend or high speed pointwork sway a little, but unlike 377s etc. aren't constantly having to do that on a single journey. My admittedly few journeys on Electrostars gives the impression that they're fine at lower speeds (up to around 70mph); not so refined past it.

 

[Fincra5]

I will say its not aided by the poor track/ point conditions. We had a high linespeed on rough old track... The Eastcoast is prime example of that. 90mph and its all over the place.

 

[physics34]

Soggy seats don't help much with poorly controlled sideways shock. I haven't had any problems with class 700s when they go through the Mill Hill wiggles at 100mph or the Slow to fast ladders on the MML at the 50mph limit. The 700s seem to have very effective lateral damping. It always felt that the 377s (and brand new 387s) had plenty of power but handled like 75mph stock running too fast.
Still, the Electrostars have nearly all gone from Thameslink so they won't be a problem much longer.
I can't remember how the LM class 172s ran on the Worcester services a couple of years ago, but it should be interesting to try the Flexx ECO bogies on class 345s when they finally reach mainline speeds.

i shouldve worded it better... SPrung seats help up and down movement.... but not neccessarily horizontal... although electrostars particularly struggle on rough track whilst slightly tilted on curves etc with almost a "diagonal" motion..

the 700s seem very good,and it kind of counter balances the hard seats...to a point.... but the hard seat issue is more about the time spent sitting rather than ride quality in my opinion.

 

[TRAX]

This seems to be typical with Bombardier bogies.

 

[bramling]

Soggy seats don't help much with poorly controlled sideways shock.

Actually they do as they make it less likely for the occupant to slide sideways along the seat and collide with the armrests. The armrests on the 387s are a pain as many people find them too high to be useful for their intended purpose, yet they're ideal for banging arms and elbows against, and being bare plastic this can be a painful experience. This is particularly so for the ones adjacent to the windows which are fixed in the down position. Meanwhile, in either the up or down positions the armrests are ideal for snagging clothing or bags against when walking along the aisle.

As for ride quality, I don't think we can blame the track. On the GN the 317s, 321s and 365s ride fine on the same track, so it's definitely a 387 thing. Sadly for many people on here it seems, unfortunately in this case it's most definitely a case of old=superior.

 

[AM9]

Actually they do as they make it less likely for the occupant to slide sideways along the seat and collide with the armrests. The armrests on the 387s are a pain as many people find them too high to be useful for their intended purpose, yet they're ideal for banging arms and elbows against, and being bare plastic this can be a painful experience. This is particularly so for the ones adjacent to the windows which are fixed in the down position. Meanwhile, in either the up or down positions the armrests are ideal for snagging clothing or bags against when walking along the aisle.

I find that the firmer seats hold me in a better position whereas a soggy seat even when new doesn't. After a period of use those seats may not even allow sitting in a set place, sometimes causing the hips not to be level. That really does create an uncomfortable ride when there is inadequate lateral stability in the train's suspension. As for sliding sideways along the seat, - that would either require extreme lateral shocks, i.e. potentially hazardous to most passengers, or for everybody to be wearing leather trousers!