Class 376 refurbs?

[Jass]

Does anyone know if se will refurb the 376s like they refurbed the 375s?
Toilets
Gangways
Air con
New livery
Better seats
Or will they be scrapped

 

[brad465]

If I'm right they have not been refurbished in any way in their 14-15 year life so far, and could certainly do with such attention. I doubt they will get any anytime soon with the whole franchise award up in the air, and by being a "Microfleet", in this day in age where microfleets don't seem to fair well in new franchises, it wouldn't surprise me if being scrapped earlier than their shelf-life would suggest happened (particularly as a Networker replacement in the next franchise is expected and whoever does it could find replacing 376s at the same time quite easy if enough are ordered).

 

[Roast Veg]

There have been multiple suggestions that these will transfer to Southern and be refurbished then, but nothing is confirmed and the news depends on the SE franchise award which has been delayed.

 

[Fincra5]

There have been multiple suggestions that these will transfer to Southern and be refurbished then, but nothing is confirmed and the news depends on the SE franchise award which has been delayed.

Thats what I heard to. Although the refurb wouldn't add toilets or aircon. A direct replacement for 313s. Some mods needed to Guarded Operation and maybe even a coach chopped out (Lots of 4 car platforms on the Coast)

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Anyone care to photoshop a unit in Southern livery...? Be interesting to see what one would look like

I thought they had aircon...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Anyone care to photoshop a unit in Southern livery...? Be interesting to see what one would look like

I thought they had aircon...

They're one of the few post-privatisation fleets without aircon, along with 334s and (unsurprisingly) 139s.

Not sure how valid the microfleet issue is, as they share many components with other Elecrostar fleets.

 

[hexagon789]

They're one of the few post-privatisation fleets without aircon, along with 334s and (unsurprisingly) 139s.

Not sure how valid the microfleet issue is, as they share many components with other Elecrostar fleets.

The 334s were retro-fitted with full air-conditioning at refurbishment, so presumably the 376s could be as well if the design allows it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The 334s were retro-fitted with full air-conditioning at refurbishment, so presumably the 376s could be as well if the design allows it.

I imagine it's possible given enough £££. If a 321 can be retro-fitted surely a 376 can.

 

[hwl]

I imagine it's possible given enough £££. If a 321 can be retro-fitted surely a 376 can.

Designed to be easy to fit the standard Electrostar Liebherr roof mounted air-con units

 

[Alteran Ancient]

I've heard a few different theories, including:

• Stay with next SE franchise, Refurb.
  
• Transfer to Southern, Refurb.
  
• Transfer to Southern, Refurb, convert to hybrid for use on the Uckfield line to replace the 171s. This outcome sounds unlikely, but I've been surprised before.
  
• Go into early retirement.

All of those outcomes (except the first one) assumes their duties will be covered by new stock.

I enjoy using the 376s on the rare chance I get one, but they honestly need a lot of work doing to them.

 

[hexagon789]

I imagine it's possible given enough £££. If a 321 can be retro-fitted surely a 376 can.

Being more modern units you would think so.

 

[brad465]

I've heard a few different theories, including:

• Stay with next SE franchise, Refurb.
  
• Transfer to Southern, Refurb.
  
• Transfer to Southern, Refurb, convert to hybrid for use on the Uckfield line to replace the 171s. This outcome sounds unlikely, but I've been surprised before.
  
• Go into early retirement.

All of those outcomes (except the first one) assumes their duties will be covered by new stock.

I enjoy using the 376s on the rare chance I get one, but they honestly need a lot of work doing to them.

It would make sense for them to leave Southeastern for the sake of having only 1-2 Metro fleet class(es) that can easily work together in formation, where 376s and 465/66s can't be mixed on the same train. I have heard the Uckfield rumour on this forum before too, but it must be from the internal grapevine as I haven't yet heard it elsewhere.

I don't know what the records are for longest period of time with no change in paintjob and/or interiors but 376s must be up there among the longest.

 

[Elshad]

I kinda like them as they are. Sitting in one of them feels like a trip back to 2005.

 

[ScotGG]

For most SE passengers using 25+year old Networkers in rotten condition having never had a proper refurb a 12+ year old 376 is the height of modernity!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Would Southern take them on to replace their Class 455s?

 

[Esker-pades]

For most SE passengers using 25+year old Networkers in rotten condition having never had a proper refurb a 12+ year old 376 is the height of modernity!

As a former SE commuter, I much prefer the Networkers to the 376s.

 

[brad465]

Would Southern take them on to replace their Class 455s?

That would be a near perfect replacement in numbers, given 376s total 180 carriages (36x5) while Southern has 46 455s totaling 184 carriages. I don't know if there is a gauging problem on the Southern Network for 376s, in the same way Networkers are/have not been not permitted to operate there. That said 375/377s are similar design so might be alright.

 

[Fincra5]

Would Southern take them on to replace their Class 455s?

No. The DOO equipment on SN is set up for 8 Car operation in most cases. So a 10car 376 would be less likely to line up with the DOO equipment. Where the platforms were extended to 10-car the DOO equipment was, mostly, left in place as all 10car services are 377's with DOO Cameras onboard.

 

[bramling]

I don't know what the records are for longest period of time with no change in paintjob and/or interiors but 376s must be up there among the longest.

Depends on one’s definitions, but many 317/1s have essentially the same interior as when new, give or take some repainting and replacement of seat coverings. Those Northern Pacers with the bus seats are also pretty recognisable to how they were when new.

 

[Jass]

I've heard a few different theories, including:

• Stay with next SE franchise, Refurb.
  
• Transfer to Southern, Refurb.
  
• Transfer to Southern, Refurb, convert to hybrid for use on the Uckfield line to replace the 171s. This outcome sounds unlikely, but I've been surprised before.
  
• Go into early retirement.

All of those outcomes (except the first one) assumes their duties will be covered by new stock.

I enjoy using the 376s on the rare chance I get one, but they honestly need a lot of work doing to them.

The 376s are terrible at 8am hayes line. Boiling hot, no toilets and you cant fit in the train. Its national rail, not central line. Theyre a joke of a train stock

 

[JonathanH]

Would Southern take them on to replace their Class 455s?

No. The DOO equipment on SN is set up for 8 Car operation in most cases. So a 10car 376 would be less likely to line up with the DOO equipment. Where the platforms were extended to 10-car the DOO equipment was, mostly, left in place as all 10car services are 377's with DOO Cameras onboard.

Clearly there is an effective 8-car restriction at Caterham, Beckenham Junction and, to all intents and purposes, via Tulse Hill so 376s can't just displace 455s.

However, one way of displacing 313s would be to use 376s to replace 377/4+2x377/3 workings, use the displaced 377/4s to replace some 455s and send 377/3 back to the coast.

I don't really get why they would select 376s for hybrid conversion on the Oxted line over another available fleet.

 

[Wolfie]

The 376s are terrible at 8am hayes line. Boiling hot, no toilets and you cant fit in the train. Its national rail, not central line. Theyre a joke of a train stock

Given that the distances you quote (Hayes line and Central line) your comparison is trite.

 

[GEC465]

No. The DOO equipment on SN is set up for 8 Car operation in most cases. So a 10car 376 would be less likely to line up with the DOO equipment. Where the platforms were extended to 10-car the DOO equipment was, mostly, left in place as all 10car services are 377's with DOO Cameras onboard.

on Southern metro I seen 10 car DOO operations with 377/6 and /7s and some cases before with 455x2 and 456

 

[hwl]

on Southern metro I seen 10 car DOO operations with 377/6 and /7s and some cases before with 455x2 and 456

Fincra is referring to the platform DOO monitors originally installed for 455s.
The 376s don't have DOO cameras (or monitors) so would need those retrofitting along with SDO for several short platforms.
The policy is to go for on train camera and monitors and remove the legacy platform monitors (eventually)

 

[Fincra5]

Indeed. When platforms were extended (mostly) to 10Car the existing DOO - Platform Mounted - Equipment, designed for 455's (And 456's) wasn't relocated as the 10 Car Metro is all 377's which have train-mounted DOO equipment. Thus 376s would be unsuitable unless they have cameras retrofitted or Network Rail install new Monitors at Platforms. The latter is more unlikely as they're moving away from Platform Equipment.

It also depends how easy/ costly it is to add DOO Cameras to 376's when they weren't designed for them.

 

[cj_1985]

Indeed. When platforms were extended (mostly) to 10Car the existing DOO - Platform Mounted - Equipment, designed for 455's (And 456's) wasn't relocated as the 10 Car Metro is all 377's which have train-mounted DOO equipment. Thus 376s would be unsuitable unless they have cameras retrofitted or Network Rail install new Monitors at Platforms. The latter is more unlikely as they're moving away from Platform Equipment.

It also depends how easy/ costly it is to add DOO Cameras to 376's when they weren't designed for them.

ISTR the southern 377s were not all originally fitted with the cameras. I think a good number needed the cameras fitted post delivery

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The 376s are terrible at 8am hayes line. Boiling hot, no toilets and you cant fit in the train. Its national rail, not central line. Theyre a joke of a train stock

Board an earlier train?

 

[Roast Veg]

I would have thought that DOO cameras for 455 replacement would be a better option than batteries for Uckfield or any manic chopping and changing for West Coastway. Doesn't West Coastway really require 3/6car work? I remember 707s not being suitable, and they're very similar trains.

 

[Fincra5]

ISTR the southern 377s were not all originally fitted with the cameras. I think a good number needed the cameras fitted post delivery

Only the early ones that were 375s. The rest were delivered. The 376 is a different design to a degree so its not necessarily as easy to do.

 

[pompeyfan]

I would have thought that DOO cameras for 455 replacement would be a better option than batteries for Uckfield or any manic chopping and changing for West Coastway. Doesn't West Coastway really require 3/6car work? I remember 707s not being suitable, and they're very similar trains.

Massively off topic but why wouldn’t 707s be suitable replacements for 313s? They already have ASDO.