Class 376: no air-con

[387star]

Why?

700s have it

what other train of this era doesn't have it?

can it be retrofitted

global warming= stifling hot summers

 

[phoenixcronin]

Why?

700s have it

what other train of this era doesn't have it?

can it be retrofitted

global warming= stifling hot summers

They are fitted with pressure ventilation instead, as the doors open quite regularly (metro routes etc) so it was thought that air con was less effective. They can be retrofitted, as air con units take up the same amount of space as pressure ventilation.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As far as I'm aware the 376s are the only post-privatisation stock that doesn't have air-conditioning apart from possibly the 139s. At the time they were ordered they were intended to be a "no-frills" unit, with a number of features geared towards the issues encountered on SE metro routes: low-maintenance seating being one, and flush fronts to prevent "train-surfing" being another.

 

[43096]

As far as I'm aware the 376s are the only post-privatisation stock that doesn't have air-conditioning apart from possibly the 139s. At the time they were ordered they were intended to be a "no-frills" unit, with a number of features geared towards the issues encountered on SE metro routes: low-maintenance seating being one, and flush fronts to prevent "train-surfing" being another.

Class 334 were also built without aircon, but are being retro-fitted.

 

[swt_passenger]

At the time they were ordered I believe it was considered that full air-conditioning was a waste of time on metro type stock with short distances between stops, simply because the regular opening of ⅓ ⅔ doors would mean that the train would be trying to treat the outside air much of the time.

I think the 378s for LO disproved that using real world experience rather than theory, so subsequent orders have all had aircon. I think that a decade ago many would have agreed that LU couldn't introduce aircon on the sub surface lines, but it has subsequently happened.

 

[ScotGG]

A penny pinching measure with a metro service being used as an excuse. Not needed apparently as cool air would be lost when doors open.

They hoped no one would realise that Metro services around the world had air con for a long time before then and regular stopping didn't render it pointless.

Anyway, since then all other UK metro stock has had it, further showing how short sited it was.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there much difference between the pipework and wiring running to a pressure venting unit from that running to an aircon unit (is the aircon design the same for all variants of Electrostar/Capitalstar?)?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is there much difference between the pipework and wiring running to a pressure venting unit from that running to an aircon unit (is the aircon design the same for all variants of Electrostar/Capitalstar?)?

I'd always assumed that "pressure ventilation" was a euphemism for "no air-con, just open the windows" rather than there being a system as such!

 

[J-2739]

I'd always assumed that "pressure ventilation" was a euphemism for "no air-con, just open the windows" rather than there being a system as such!

I've never really known what pressure ventilation is compared to air-con? Is pre-ve (yeah, I'm going to call it that now) just forcing the same air from outside on you?

 

[Mikey C]

I can't say I've ever felt any pressure ventilation on 376s, it's not obvious

Do any of the BREL Networkers still have working eyeball vents? Those were quite a novelty and pretty unique?

 

[Alteran Ancient]

I'd always assumed that "pressure ventilation" was a euphemism for "no air-con, just open the windows" rather than there being a system as such!

The windows would imply that some form of climate control is installed, because all of the passenger-operated windows have a T-key lock on them, similar to the 375s. The few times I've been on a 376, I can't say I've felt it was too hot. You never get that feeling of walking into a giant refrigerator, though, unlike the times I get on a 375 in the middle of a hot summer's day.

 

[mark-h]

I'd always assumed that "pressure ventilation" was a euphemism for "no air-con, just open the windows" rather than there being a system as such!

Opening windows is "natural ventilation" (at least to estate agents).

Pressure ventilation is an active system using fans to move air through the train but lacking air cooling and dehumidification.

Most cars without airconditioning have pressure ventilation as they have a fan.

 

[J-2739]

Opening windows is "natural ventilation" (at least to estate agents).

Pressure ventilation is an active system using fans to move air through the train but lacking air cooling and dehumidification.

Most cars without airconditioning have pressure ventilation as they have a fan.

Thanks for that!

 

[Mikey C]

The windows would imply that some form of climate control is installed, because all of the passenger-operated windows have a T-key lock on them, similar to the 375s. The few times I've been on a 376, I can't say I've felt it was too hot. You never get that feeling of walking into a giant refrigerator, though, unlike the times I get on a 375 in the middle of a hot summer's day.

I assume the windows on the 376s have a lock to stop "locals" entering the depot and dropping stuff inside through the opening!

Is the pressure ventilation actually taking air from outside (like the BREL 465 vents)?

 

[Servotech Rail]

Class 334 were also built without aircon, but are being retro-fitted.

334's do have air con. The oem supplier was a French company called Soprano who went bust about 18 months ago. This affected Alstom's 334 180, 175 and 458, we have been supporting with the overhaul and repair of the PLC controllers for the affected HVAC units.

 

[gazthomas]

I always thought the lack of air-con on the 376's were quite an anomaly, but as others have said it can be viewed as either a great justification for pressure ventilation or a major cost cutting measure and an anomaly. I err on the side of the later. I only wish the 365's had air-con as they're great units in my view.

 

[6Gman]

global warming= stifling hot summers

and more and more air-conditioning = more global warming

 

[gazthomas]

and more and more air-conditioning = more global warming

But it must be better than air-con in cars?

 

[Skimble19]

I can't say I've ever felt any pressure ventilation on 376s, it's not obvious

Do any of the BREL Networkers still have working eyeball vents? Those were quite a novelty and pretty unique?

They still work on the 365s on Great Northern.. Some are more powerful than others, can be nice in the summer when you're stationary to have a nice strong breeze that you can aim wherever you want..

 

[43096]

334's do have air con. The oem supplier was a French company called Soprano who went bust about 18 months ago. This affected Alstom's 334 180, 175 and 458, we have been supporting with the overhaul and repair of the PLC controllers for the affected HVAC units.

Sorry, but you are wrong. The 334s were built without aircon in passenger areas - do the driving cabs have aircon that was affected?

This piece backs up my point about aircon being installed: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...rded-scotrail-emu-refurbishment-contract.html

 

[Servotech Rail]

Sorry, but you are wrong. The 334s were built without aircon in passenger areas - do the driving cabs have aircon that was affected?

This piece backs up my point about aircon being installed: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...rded-scotrail-emu-refurbishment-contract.html

I think you are perhaps mistaken.
We have both cab and saloon plc HVAC controllers in our workshop right now and I have the PO and Alstom DTR numbers to go with the repairs.
Also, your link mentions that aircon\HVAC will be fitted, but does not mention that the 334's never had it in the first place.

More info. here http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+334+Modifications+2015-2016 the clue is "upgraded aircon".

 

[43096]

I think you are perhaps mistaken.
We have both cab and saloon plc HVAC controllers in our workshop right now and I have the PO and Alstom DTR numbers to go with the repairs.
Also, your link mentions that aircon\HVAC will be fitted, but does not mention that the 334's never had it in the first place.

More info. here http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+334+Modifications+2015-2016 the clue is "upgraded aircon".

Fine, you believe what you want. Maybe your workshop is making the new controllers for the upgrade to fit them with aircon.

I know, from having travelled on them, that every window has an opening hopper window that can be opened by passengers. I know of no other aircon train in the UK that has that.

 

[Servotech Rail]

Let's just say that I believe that you are mistaken, here's a photo one one of the old Soprano HVAC units from the 334's that we are currently repairing, please note that it is clearly marked Saloon.

 

[43096]

Let's just say that I believe that you are mistaken, here's a photo one one of the old Soprano HVAC units from the 334's that we are currently repairing, please note that it is clearly marked Saloon.

Might they use the same controller just for the heating i.e. there is space to add aircon (bodyshell virtually identical to a 458) but the controller only controls heating until aircon is installed?

 

[t_star2001uk]

Taken from the Eversholt Rail website

The work is due to start in early 2015 and will deliver significant improvements for the benefit of passengers. Alstom’s Modernisation team in Preston will lead the work, with the Glasgow Traincare Centre in Polmadie removing and refitting the components, supported by Manchester Traincare Centre. Some of the works being undertaken as part of this contract are:

• Time-based overhaul
• Overhaul and reliability works on saloon and cab doors
• Fitting full passenger saloon heating, ventilation and air conditioning
• Installation of 230v at seat sockets
• Preparing carriages for future WiFi, by installing an Ethernet backbone
• New Drivers Only operation CCTV system.

So were they not fitted at build and are now being fitted...

 

[urpert]

I can't say I've ever felt any pressure ventilation on 376s, it's not obvious

Do any of the BREL Networkers still have working eyeball vents? Those were quite a novelty and pretty unique?

Yes, they're all still there and most of them work.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is there much difference between the pipework and wiring running to a pressure venting unit from that running to an aircon unit (is the aircon design the same for all variants of Electrostar/Capitalstar?)?

They certainly have space for the aircon units in the area above the doors (with blanking panels fitted to maintain the roof line).

 

[Hadders]

I only wish the 365's had air-con as they're great units in my view.

I agree that the 365s are great units. No need for air con really though, nothing quite like 100mph on a hot summers day with all the windows open