Class 375/377 interiors

[MK Tom]

Can someone help me figure out all the different interiors Electrostars have?

Regarding 377s, 377/2s that I use all the time have the nice 2+2 with tables seating in the end carriages and the hard, uncomfortable 3+2 seating in the centre coaches. From what I've seen /5s are the same and /3s have the nice 2+2 throughout.

/1s and /4s are confusing me though - I've seen examples with all 2+2, all 3+2 and the combination you see on the /2s. Can anyone clarify this?

I have no idea about 375s but I've experienced two different interiors there too.

Obviously /6s and /7s have the 387 ironing board seating because they're not really 377s at all.

Also, is there any reason different interior specs were ordered? Are they assigned to services in any particular way?

Thanks!

 

[NSE]

Connex specced the first batches and they all came as 375. Beginning with 375/6's and /7's. They then began the 3 car variant. This was the first batch Southern received and they modified the couplers from Tightlock to Dellner. This subsequently became standard on all the rest of the new trains. This gave them a difference to the original 375 that was ordered and so Southerns were christened 377. Southeastern have since modified theirs too, but retained the 375 classification.

Regarding the differences between subclasses. The next batch to come was the first batch of 377/1's and they were to be used for 'Mainline', i.e. direct slammer replacement, and they had the 2+2 seating through out (I think). These can be spotted by their different headlight arrangement (also shared by the 377/3's). They also had a Connex spec interior, not Southern green. A recent refurb has now given the interior the Southern colours. They then ordered more as Southern.

The original batch of 377/1's were based at Lovers Walk, being used on Brighton and other coast stations to London, but the second batch of /1's, which had the 2+2 in the end and 3+2 in the middle carriages and the newer headlight cluster, where based at Selhurst and found on a bit of everything. Using Wikipedia as a rough guide for delivery times, then came the /2's and the /4's. The second batch of /1's and the /2's, /4's and /5's are the same with regards to seating, the only differences being the dual voltage capability for the /2's and /5's and the different colours found on the /5's.

As for route availability, the /2's obviously were stuck on the West London line, with the surplus used on any route where needed. The /3's began life down on the South Coast, but the arrival of the 313's then bumped them up to London. I remember reading that it was intended that the first batch of /1's and the /4's were based at Lovers Walk and were meant to be for the mainline stuff. In recent years however, they are used on anything and everything. I've been at Caterham and Purley and all stations services are formed of the Brighton allocated units. I suppose the only limit is making sure the formations don't exceed platform lengths, as with 3, 4 and 5 car variants, the possibilities are (almost ) endless!

Hope that helps. They may be common as muck nowadays, but I do love the 377 haha

 

[physics34]

Connex specced the first batches and they all came as 375. Beginning with 375/6's and /7's. They then began the 3 car variant. This was the first batch Southern received and they modified the couplers from Tightlock to Dellner. This subsequently became standard on all the rest of the new trains. This gave them a difference to the original 375 that was ordered and so Southerns were christened 377. Southeastern have since modified theirs too, but retained the 375 classification.

Regarding the differences between subclasses. The next batch to come was the first batch of 377/1's and they were to be used for 'Mainline', i.e. direct slammer replacement, and they had the 2+2 seating through out (I think). These can be spotted by their different headlight arrangement (also shared by the 377/3's). They also had a Connex spec interior, not Southern green. A recent refurb has now given the interior the Southern colours. They then ordered more as Southern.

The original batch of 377/1's were based at Lovers Walk, being used on Brighton and other coast stations to London, but the second batch of /1's, which had the 2+2 in the end and 3+2 in the middle carriages and the newer headlight cluster, where based at Selhurst and found on a bit of everything. Using Wikipedia as a rough guide for delivery times, then came the /2's and the /4's. The second batch of /1's and the /2's, /4's and /5's are the same with regards to seating, the only differences being the dual voltage capability for the /2's and /5's and the different colours found on the /5's.

As for route availability, the /2's obviously were stuck on the West London line, with the surplus used on any route where needed. The /3's began life down on the South Coast, but the arrival of the 313's then bumped them up to London. I remember reading that it was intended that the first batch of /1's and the /4's were based at Lovers Walk and were meant to be for the mainline stuff. In recent years however, they are used on anything and everything. I've been at Caterham and Purley and all stations services are formed of the Brighton allocated units. I suppose the only limit is making sure the formations don't exceed platform lengths, as with 3, 4 and 5 car variants, the possibilities are (almost ) endless!

Hope that helps. They may be common as muck nowadays, but I do love the 377 haha

377121 - 139 have the 2+2 seating in the DMOS and 3+2 in the PTSOL and TSO and the old headlight clusters (Connex spec) Sorry to be pedantic.

 

[NSE]

377121 - 139 have the 2+2 seating in the DMOS and 3+2 in the PTSOL and TSO and the old headlight clusters (Connex spec) Sorry to be pedantic.

Oh no thats good to know haha! Wikipedia had just lumped them into one batch, as has the the two rail guides I have on my bookshelf.

 

[RichardKing]

Can someone help me figure out all the different interiors Electrostars have?

Regarding 377s, 377/2s that I use all the time have the nice 2+2 with tables seating in the end carriages and the hard, uncomfortable 3+2 seating in the centre coaches. From what I've seen /5s are the same and /3s have the nice 2+2 throughout.

/1s and /4s are confusing me though - I've seen examples with all 2+2, all 3+2 and the combination you see on the /2s. Can anyone clarify this?

I have no idea about 375s but I've experienced two different interiors there too.

Obviously /6s and /7s have the 387 ironing board seating because they're not really 377s at all.

Also, is there any reason different interior specs were ordered? Are they assigned to services in any particular way?

Thanks!

Well, I am unfamiliar with the 375s, but I will certainly fill you in about the 377s!
377/1:
377 101-119: 2+2, padded and very comfortable seating throughout. Due to the design of the grab rails, there are no separating doors in first class. These units were ordered by Connex, prior to Govia winning the franchise in 2003;
377 120-139: 3+2, ironing board seating between the first door and the second door (where you would board/alight the unit) throughout, with the 2+2 padded and comfortable seating between the second door and interconnecting door throughout. Again, there are no separating doors in first class. These units were also ordered by Connex;
377 140-164: 2+2, relatively padded and relatively comfortable 2+2 seating in the leading and trailing coaches, with the 3+2, ironing board seating in the middle two coaches. Again, no separating doors in first class as this was yet another Connex batch;
NOTE(S): Units numbered 377 101-139 underwent a massive interior refresh a few years ago, updating them from their previous Southeastern-like livery to a more Govia-inspired livery (like what you would see in any other Southern unit, barring the 442s, of course!). The first class seating in all three specifications are the padded 2+2 design. Also, not relating to the interior design, but the front and back facing lights on units numbered 377 101-139 (as well as the 377/3s) are much smaller than all of the other 377s.
377/2:
377 201-215: Identical to units numbered 377 140-164 in that they have the 2+2 seating in the leading and trailing coaches and the 3+2 seating in the middle two coaches, however these units do have separating doors included in both first class sections. These units were ordered by Govia.
NOTE(S): Again, not relating to the interior design in any way, but, as these units were built to be able to run on both AC and DC power, there is a pantograph fitted on each 377/2 spec unit above either coach 2 or coach 3 (depending on which way the train is going!). Units numbered 377 207-215 are currently on loan to Thameslink (and work alongside 377/5s) until all of the new stock (the 700s) are in service.
377/3:
377 301-328: These units have a completely identical interior and exterior to the 377/1s, numbered 101-119. The only difference is that the /3s are formed of 3 coaches as opposed to 4. These units were also ordered by Connex before Govia won the franchise in 2003.
NOTE(S): These units were actually converted from Southeastern 375s (originally numbered 375 311-338). The main change was that the couplers were changed from Tightlock to Dellners.
377/4:
377 401-475: These units are all identical to the 377/2s, just without the pantograph above the second/third coach. All of these units were ordered by Govia once they had taken over the Connex franchise.
NOTE(s): Units 377 472 and 474, if you didn't already know, were involved the record breaking speed run between London Bridge and Brighton. There was previously branding on the exterior of both units (and, I think, a couple of posters dotted around inside), recognizing this achievement. However, this was removed back in 2014 during an overhaul.
377/5:
377 501-523: These units are completely identical to the 377/2s. As previously mentioned, they currently used for Thameslink services, although, once the 700s are in service, will be moving to Southern to provide extra capacity. These units were all ordered by Govia, originally in order to provide more capacity on Southern (which, as mentioned above, will soon be the case).
NOTE(S): Some 377/5s are running with the new Thameslink logo.
377/6 & 7s:
377 601-626 & 701-708: The /6s and /7s both have the ironing board seating throughout, just like the 387/1s and /2s (I'm not completely sure of the seating layout, nor about the first class areas). I think there has been some confusion amongst passengers and staff alike about first class, especially, on these units. The main difference between the two subclasses is that the /7s have pantographs above coach number 3 in order for them to run on AC power as well as DC, and the /6s don't. All of these units are formed of 5 coaches and were ordered by Govia in order to replace the 456s and to provide extra capacity (in the 377/7s case, on the West London line).
NOTE(S): Because of the aforementioned confusion about where first class is situated in these units, GTR decided to paint a traditional yellow marker above, with the words 'first class' on the side, just like all of the other 377s. I have no idea why this wasn't the case anyway!

I hope this does tell you what you wanted to know! Hopefully, someone will be able to get back to you regarding the Southeastern units.

EDIT: Apologies, it has taken me such a long time to write all of the above that I've only just seen that someone else has already beaten me to it! I need to be quicker!!

Richard
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

377121 - 139 have the 2+2 seating in the DMOS and 3+2 in the PTSOL and TSO and the old headlight clusters (Connex spec) Sorry to be pedantic.

You've forgotten to put 377 120 into that category! Also, the seating arrangement is every so slightly different to how you've described it: the 3+2 seating features in every coach, just in the middle of it (i.e. between the first and second doors). There is then the 2+2 seating at the front/rear of each coach (i.e. between the second door and the interconnecting door). What you described is more applicable to units numbered 377 140-164, the /2s, the /4s and the /5s (minus the old headlights, of course!).

 

[physics34]

You've forgotten to put 377 120 into that category! Also, the seating arrangement is every so slightly different to how you've described it: the 3+2 seating features in every coach, just in the middle of it (i.e. between the first and second doors). There is then the 2+2 seating at the front/rear of each coach (i.e. between the second door and the interconnecting door). What you described is more applicable to units numbered 377 140-164, the /2s, the /4s and the /5s (minus the old headlights, of course!).

Thanks for clearing that up. I drive the blooming things and I still get confused!

 

[MK Tom]

Thanks for this, that's very helpful!

The /6 and /7 seating is 2+2 throughout with armrests and tables, which is good, but first class is literally the exact same seating which strikes me as completely pointless.

If anyone could fill me in on the 2+2 vs 3+2 interiors on SE 375s too that'd be very helpful.

 

[Kite159]

Thanks for this, that's very helpful!

The /6 and /7 seating is 2+2 throughout with armrests and tables, which is good, but first class is literally the exact same seating which strikes me as completely pointless.

If anyone could fill me in on the 2+2 vs 3+2 interiors on SE 375s too that'd be very helpful.

The 375/3, 6, 7 & 8 subclasses are all 2+2 seating. The 9s are 3+2 seating with 2+2 in the first class area behind the cabs

 

[SEClass375]

CLASS 375

Class 375/6-
30 4 car units
First to be built under Connex with 2+2 padded seating original moquette and white with yellow door exterior. Poles at doors bend straight down and door buttons inside are bigger. All refurbished except 375609 to latest seating moquette and navy with royal blue doors exterior.
Built with tightlock couplers but have been converted to Dellner but not renumbered to class 377 unlike southern.

Class 375/7-
15 4 car units
Second to be built by Connex/SouthEastern Trains with 2+2 padded seating original moquette and white with yellow door exterior. Poles at doors bend straight down and door buttons inside are bigger. 375704 and 375707 refurbished to latest seating moquette and navy with royal blue doors exterior.
Built with tightlock couplers but have been converted to Dellner but not renumbered to class 377 unlike southern.

Class 375/3-
38 3 car unts
Third to be built by Connex/SouthEastern Trains/Southern with 2+2 padded seating original moquette and white with yellow door exterior for southeastern and southern exterior for southern. Poles at doors bend straight down and door buttons inside are bigger.
Built with tightlock couplers but have been converted to Dellner however southern reclassified their 28 units to class 377301-377328 unlike southeastern who haven't renumbered their units and left them as 375301-375310.
All southeastern units refurbished to latest seating moquette and navy with royal blue doors exterior.

Class 375/8-
30 4 car units
Built for SouthEastern Trains with 2+2 padded seating original moquette and white with yellow door exterior. Poles at doors do not bend straight down and door buttons inside are smaller. All units have latest seating moquette however still have the original exterior.
All units were built with dellner couplers.

Class 375/9-
27 4 car units
Last to be built with high capacity in mind as they have the less comfortable 3+2 seating with original moquette in standard class. All units have white with yellow doors exterior. Poles by the doors do not bend straight down and the interior door buttons are smaller. All units have latest seating moquette however still have the original exterior.
All units were built with dellner couplers.

Subclasses /3, /6 & /7 have the smaller connex style headlamps and glass overhead racks whereas subclasses /8 & /9 have larger headlamps and have holes in the metal overhead racks.

In the fully refurbished units (except subclass /3 where the 1st class section is at one end behind the cab) 1st class is in the middle of the train between the door and the interconnecting gangway. On non fully refurbished units 1st class is at both ends of the train behind the cab.

 

[RichardKing]

Thanks for clearing that up. I drive the blooming things and I still get confused!

Not a problem! It's unbelievable how many variations there are on the 377s!

 

[387star]

377/2 do not have a first class door so the above is incorrect

Only 377/4 and 377/5 have a first class door with power points in first class and two seats facing into the aisle.

All southern ordered units have plastic overhead luggage racks with holes rather than th earlier glass variant

The interior lighting looks much different on later 377s and yes the poles by the doors extend from a secondary pole fitted to the ceiling and then inserted into the perspex rather than sloping out from above the doors as well as hand grabs being different

377/4 and 377/5 additionally have privacy screens in the standard class section of each outer vehicle with 2 +2 seating

The older connex units have dark blue pannelling whereas later units have a much lighter sky blue pannelling

The disabled toilets are blue as opposed to green on the connex spec units

377/3 have had their full sized tables replaced with mini tables and at least two units have southern logos incorrectly placed


All 375/6 are now in the new southeastern livery as are most 375/7

 

[physics34]

377301 and 311 are the two units with Southern logos in the wrong place I think

 

[JonathanH]

One other interior difference. Isn't the layout of tables and airline seats different on 375/8s to how it is set up in the 375/6s and 375/7s?

 

[RichardKing]

377/2 do not have a first class door so the above is incorrect

Apologies, I don't know why I thought they did. I haven't been on any /2s for a while, which explains my confusion!

 

[superalbs]

377301 and 311 are the two units with Southern logos in the wrong place I think

I checked this recently, and found these to be the ex-CO2 livery:

377301
377310
377315

Here is the only photo I can find of the advertising livery, the reason behind the logo placement:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/98587546@N00/5891452480

 

[MrB]

One other interior difference. Isn't the layout of tables and airline seats different on 375/8s to how it is set up in the 375/6s and 375/7s?

I believe there are more tables in the 375/6s (at least it feels like there is) but don't quote me on that.

 

[Kite159]

All 375/6 are now in the new southeastern livery as are most 375/7

375609 was still running around in the 'trial' livery a couple weeks ago

I believe there are more tables in the 375/6s (at least it feels like there is) but don't quote me on that.

Agreed there, feels like there are more tables on a /6 (&7) compared with a 8

 

[physics34]

I checked this recently, and found these to be the ex-CO2 livery:

377301
377310
377315

Here is the only photo I can find of the advertising livery, the reason behind the logo placement:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/98587546@N00/5891452480

oh yes i remember that. And yes i meant 310 not 311.

 

[sarahj]

Two other notes of the earlier batches.

On the earlier units the conductors panel does not open fully as the pass comm button is higher and a rubber pole stops it. Passenger can bash into them when boarding, so as a conductor you sometimes have to hold them almost closed when punters are boarding.
Later units the pass comm button is lower and the conductors panel doors opens fully, held back with springs, which can and do snap. (owwww )

Toilets: The earlier units only have two buttons inside. D for Door and L for lock. The light outside is square and only shows vacant or engaged settings, ie on or off. Door open button is a touch panel, same as the inside buttons. Emergency door control of the toilet door is a t-bar slot to the right of the door about head height.
Later units have the three buttons, open,close and lock. The outside light can show, off, on or flashing for out of order and is round. Door control buttons are round, buttons, (same as external doors). Emergency door control is situated in a panel almost on floor level and has 3 settings. Open/in service/ out of service.

 

[387star]

In a further complication the old first class upholstery on 377/5s that have been refurbished is now used as the differentiating priority seat upholstery on these units as no seat covers have been changed

 

[SEClass375]

I noticed on the refurbished units for example I travelled on Royal Tunbridge Wells (375610) a while ago and found that some of the new table patterns were incorrectly aligned.

 

[tsr]

Toilets: The earlier units only have two buttons inside. D for Door and L for lock. The light outside is square and only shows vacant or engaged settings, ie on or off. Door open button is a touch panel, same as the inside buttons. Emergency door control of the toilet door is a t-bar slot to the right of the door about head height.
Later units have the three buttons, open,close and lock. The outside light can show, off, on or flashing for out of order and is round. Door control buttons are round, buttons, (same as external doors). Emergency door control is situated in a panel almost on floor level and has 3 settings. Open/in service/ out of service.

A few more things about those...

- The older toilets do have a flashing "out of order" light setting on the exterior, but it's so faint as to almost not be noticeable. There are a couple of units where it simply doesn't work at all. A similar sort of indicator - but a bit brighter - is actually used on the small toilets of the "new" 171s.
- On the 377/6 and /7 units, there is a separate exterior indicator light on the module, with a crossed-out "WC" pictogram for when the toilet has gone out of order by itself.

There are actually at least 4 different variants of 377 accessible toilets - there are also slight variations on some of the TL 377s, with a sloping interior wall by the mirror rather than a near-enough vertical one. 387s also have variations - for example, some of their toilets have an additional sanitiser dispenser by the loo roll slot.

It all gets very confusing with 3 minutes to sort problems out between stations...

 

[sarahj]

A few more things about those...

- The older toilets do have a flashing "out of order" light setting on the exterior, but it's so faint as to almost not be noticeable. There are a couple of units where it simply doesn't work at all. A similar sort of indicator - but a bit brighter - is actually used on the small toilets of the "new" 171s.
- On the 377/6 and /7 units, there is a separate exterior indicator light on the module, with a crossed-out "WC" pictogram for when the toilet has gone out of order by itself.

There are actually at least 4 different variants of 377 accessible toilets - there are also slight variations on some of the TL 377s, with a sloping interior wall by the mirror rather than a near-enough vertical one. 387s also have variations - for example, some of their toilets have an additional sanitiser dispenser by the loo roll slot.

It all gets very confusing with 3 minutes to sort problems out between stations...

I just guess I'm not used to the 6's and 7's as they don't often come onto the routes I work except on mainline routes on some weekends, and as for a 387.......