Class 365 PBC Unit and PIS system

[WMasterJedi]

Have you tried clearing/formatting the program EPROM and then installing the copy of the program file? It might trick the controller into thinking new software has been installed.

That's the thing the only copy of the program EPROM that I have is the corrupt one. If my other controller had its program EPROM in a socket I'd be able to copy that but it isn't.

 

[365 Networker]

That's the thing the only copy of the program EPROM that I have is the corrupt one. If my other controller had its program EPROM in a socket I'd be able to copy that but it isn't.

What I meant was simply reinstall the “corrupt” program back onto the EPROM after it has been formatted. I suspect this is what the fill gun would have done. It might not make any difference but it might be worth a try.

 

[WMasterJedi]

What I meant was simply reinstall the “corrupt” program back onto the EPROM after it has been formatted. I suspect this is what the fill gun would have done. It might not make any difference but it might be worth a try.

If by "format" you mean erasing the EPROM then yes I have tried that to no avail unfortunately.

 

[WMasterJedi]

What I meant was simply reinstall the “corrupt” program back onto the EPROM after it has been formatted. I suspect this is what the fill gun would have done. It might not make any difference but it might be worth a try.

The fill gun is essentially an EPROM programmer that is able to work without taking the EPROM out and all it does is re write the program data.

 

[365 Networker]

If by "format" you mean erasing the EPROM then yes I have tried that to no avail unfortunately.

Yes that‘s a shame - just looking at the bin file now - it mentions a database, could it be that it needs to be connected to the dot matrix display to download the data?

 

[WMasterJedi]

Yes that‘s a shame - just looking at the bin file now - it mentions a database, could it be that it needs to be connected to the dot matrix display to download the data?

It's always connected to the main external dot matrix to get power, but I'm not sure. I think my only real options are to either get the program EPROM desoldered from the working controller or buy the other one on ebay.
I'm not too worried about the outcome of this as I bought another controller for a reason however it would be nice to get it working again.

 

[365 Networker]

It's always connected to the main external dot matrix to get power, but I'm not sure. I think my only real options are to either get the program EPROM desoldered from the working controller or buy the other one on ebay.
I'm not too worried about the outcome of this as I bought another controller for a reason however it would be nice to get it working again.

Yes - I wouldn’t risk de-soldering the other controller! Perhaps you should try contacting Great Northern to see if anyone a Hornsey has any advice about the issue - or perhaps to ask if they have any fill guns left. The other one on eBay may also be a good option, but there is of course no guarantee that the same problem wouldn’t occur again.

 

[WMasterJedi]

Yes - I wouldn’t risk de-soldering the other controller! Perhaps you should try contacting Great Northern to see if anyone a Hornsey has any advice about the issue - or perhaps to ask if they have any fill guns left. The other one on eBay may also be a good option, but there is of course no guarantee that the same problem wouldn’t occur again.

It got corrupted because of my stupidity and once I have a backup as I do with the database then I'm safe - the one on ebay is a little pricey at £90 so I may not be purchasing it straight away.

 

[365 Networker]

It got corrupted because of my stupidity and once I have a backup as I do with the database then I'm safe - the one on ebay is a little pricey at £90 so I may not be purchasing it straight away.

That one doesn’t seem to be going anytime soon - pretty sure it’s been on eBay quite a few months. I did also notice on the database bin file that it seems to be using ADtranz TMS software - so not the original software I suspect as when the 365s were built the company was still ABB. Perhaps Alstom Derby still has the software in their archives somewhere, I believe this is where the 365s were refurbished about 10 years ago. At the time there were modifications done to the PIS - notably reinstating the WAGN welcome aboard message. I believe one of your internal PIS screens had some EPROMs - have you tried these on the programmer?

 

[WMasterJedi]

That one doesn’t seem to be going anytime soon - pretty sure it’s been on eBay quite a few months. I did also notice on the database bin file that it seems to be using ADtranz TMS software - so not the original software I suspect as when the 365s were built the company was still ABB. Perhaps Alstom Derby still has the software in their archives somewhere, I believe this is where the 365s were refurbished about 10 years ago. At the time there were modifications done to the PIS - notably reinstating the WAGN welcome aboard message. I believe one of your internal PIS screens had some EPROMs - have you tried these on the programmer?

I would like to try those - however they are soldered directly into the PCB.

 

[bramling]

That one doesn’t seem to be going anytime soon - pretty sure it’s been on eBay quite a few months. I did also notice on the database bin file that it seems to be using ADtranz TMS software - so not the original software I suspect as when the 365s were built the company was still ABB. Perhaps Alstom Derby still has the software in their archives somewhere, I believe this is where the 365s were refurbished about 10 years ago. At the time there were modifications done to the PIS - notably reinstating the WAGN welcome aboard message. I believe one of your internal PIS screens had some EPROMs - have you tried these on the programmer?

Can’t really help with the technical side of things. However I seem to remember that when the 365s first entered service on GN the destination displays and interior screens weren’t operational. WAGN stated this was whilst new software was awaited. Think it was resolved within a year or so. This might explain why Adtranz is mentioned.

 

[365 Networker]

Can’t really help with the technical side of things. However I seem to remember that when the 365s first entered service on GN the destination displays and interior screens weren’t operational. WAGN stated this was whilst new software was awaited. Think it was resolved within a year or so. This might explain why Adtranz is mentioned.

Interesting - did the audio announcer work from new?

 

[bramling]

Interesting - did the audio announcer work from new?

No. Nothing at all. It all came to life following a software update. Or at least that’s what WAGN said at the time.

 

[365 Networker]

No. Nothing at all. It all came to life following a software update. Or at least that’s what WAGN said at the time.

Thanks for the info. It must have been quite a high-tech system for its time - even the 465s didn‘t have audio announcements until the mid 2000s

 

[bramling]

Thanks for the info. It must have been quite a high-tech system for its time - even the 465s didn‘t have audio announcements until the mid 2000s

Yes I think the 365s were the first mainline trains to have “next station” messages and announcements. Around the same time there was the 95 tube stock as well - the 92 stock had announcements only, whilst the 96 stock didn’t get their system fully working for a while.

Like the 92 stock, the 365 system was very pleasing to the ear, and didn’t overload with pointless stuff.

 

[WMasterJedi]

I am very happy to announce that the class 365 announcement EPROM boards have arrived!

Updates will come!

 

[WMasterJedi]

I am very happy to announce that the class 365 announcement EPROM boards have arrived!
View attachment 165403
Updates will come!

Very very good news, just take a listen...

The settings need to be changed so there isn't any of the noise but this is mega! (If anyone can help with the noise that would be very helpful!)

This is only one out of the many EPROMs on here (South East A)

South East A

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

 

[365 Networker]

Fantastic to hear these! What format are the raw audio files? It sounds like they are over amplified, although I remember there was always a “squeaking” type sound when the announcements would play.

I look forward to hearing the others.

 

[WMasterJedi]

Fantastic to hear these! What format are the raw audio files? It sounds like they are over amplified, although I remember there was always a “squeaking” type sound when the announcements would play.

I look forward to hearing the others.

They are .BIN files which I have read from the EPROMs.

South East

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.

www.mediafire.com

Every EPROMs extracted .BIN file and converted audio, these are just the South East ones!

 

[WMasterJedi]

I have been able to get slightly better quality by importing them into audacity with unsigned 8 bit PCM.

Edit: Using VOX ADPCM returns a very good result however it is not perfect. https://www.mediafire.com/file/fa811emno445oqx/South_East_A_test.wav/file

 

[365 Networker]

I have been able to get slightly better quality by importing them into audacity with unsigned 8 bit PCM.

Edit: Using VOX ADPCM returns a very good result however it is not perfect. https://www.mediafire.com/file/fa811emno445oqx/South_East_A_test.wav/file

That is much better. It's also interesting to hear that quite a few of the announcements seem to be in a foreign language - French?

 

[365 Networker]

It seems that the original audio files may have been .VOX files - I changed the .BIN to .VOX and then opened them in a program called NCH Switch https://www.nch.com.au/switch/kb/free.html
When playing and exporting the files using this software, the sound quality is quite a bit better with much less distortion, although the popping sound still remains.

 

[WMasterJedi]

It seems that the original audio files may have been .VOX files - I changed the .BIN to .VOX and then opened them in a program called NCH Switch https://www.nch.com.au/switch/kb/free.html
When playing and exporting the files using this software, the sound quality is quite a bit better with much less distortion, although the popping sound still remains.

WOW, just tried it for myself and it is definitely a step up!

 

[365 Networker]

WOW, just tried it for myself and it is definitely a step up!

Have you managed to find the WAGN & Connex welcome aboard messages on the EPROMS? I would love to hear those - along with the special announcements.

 

[WMasterJedi]

Have you managed to find the WAGN & Connex welcome aboard messages on the EPROMS? I would love to hear those - along with the special announcements.

Oh yes I never updated railforums on this but I have got the WAGN ones! Which means all GT North and South East EPROMs have been saved!

The manual announcements are all on the GT North EPROMs and interesting a couple South East station names.

All .BIN files are here along with the converted .wav in audacity (ignore those as we have this better method!)

Google Drive: Sign-in

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drive.google.com

 

[bramling]

Have you managed to find the WAGN & Connex welcome aboard messages on the EPROMS? I would love to hear those - along with the special announcements.

I’m not sure there was ever a welcome aboard message for Connex. It’s been a while, but my memory from using 365s in Connex days was that you only ever heard (eg) “This train is for Ramsgate via Faversham” at the origin.

 

[365 Networker]

Oh yes I never updated railforums on this but I have got the WAGN ones! Which means all GT North and South East EPROMs have been saved!

The manual announcements are all on the GT North EPROMs and interesting a couple South East station names.

All .BIN files are here along with the converted .wav in audacity (ignore those as we have this better method!)

Google Drive: Sign-in

Access Google Drive with a Google account (for personal use) or Google Workspace account (for business use).

drive.google.com

Excellent! I shall have fun going through those.

I’m not sure there was ever a welcome aboard message for Connex. It’s been a while, but my memory from using 365s in Connex days was that you only ever heard (eg) “This train is for Ramsgate via Faversham” at the origin.

Interesting - quite similar to how the announcements worked in FCC days.

 

[WMasterJedi]

I have renamed all of the .BIN files into .VOX and then converted them using NCH Switch!

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1K6kqcFouNsGY0IP4tbZ3afXhCU4X9mvN?usp=sharing

 

[WMasterJedi]

I’m not sure there was ever a welcome aboard message for Connex. It’s been a while, but my memory from using 365s in Connex days was that you only ever heard (eg) “This train is for Ramsgate via Faversham” at the origin.

I've listened through all of the South East files and there isn't a welcome aboard message for Connex however there is one for WAGN!

 

[bramling]

I've listened through all of the South East files and there isn't a welcome aboard message for Connex however there is one for WAGN!

One thing worth noting, there seem to be two sets of messages for the SE. Do we presume an update was done at the point where the 365s were concentrated on the Victoria to Ramsgate / Dover Priory route, in particular where they started regularly detaching and attaching at Faversham?