Class 365 memories of their time in service.

[thedbdiboy]

Time to share again the only photo I took of these in Connex services, of the (recently deceased) 502 (even though I rode on them regularly back then). The curse of ignoring new stuff whilst concentrating on taking pictures of slam door trains!

 

[DustyBin]

Time to share again the only photo I took of these in Connex services, of the (recently deceased) 502 (even though I rode on them regularly back then). The curse of ignoring new stuff whilst concentrating on taking pictures of slam door trains!

Funnily enough I was just thinking how I used to avoid the 365s like the plague when the alternative was a CEP, CIG or VEP! To be fair though nobody could have foreseen that they’d have such short lives, it’s a total waste (sorry to repeat the point again).

 

[bramling]

Funnily enough I was just thinking how I used to avoid the 365s like the plague when the alternative was a CEP, CIG or VEP! To be fair though nobody could have foreseen that they’d have such short lives, it’s a total waste (sorry to repeat the point again).

I remember a couple of trips to Kent in their very early days, when amongst the usual diet of CEP/CIG/VEP they were quite a novelty.

In those days it was possible to do, and indeed I once or twice did, GN to King’s Cross, Victoria to Margate via Chatham, spend a few hours in Margate, Margate to Charing Cross via Canterbury West and Maidstone East, then home from KX, all four trains being brand new 365s, still with that “new train” smell. In their early days first class had curtains, which along with the green colour scheme produced a very calming atmosphere indeed.

I forget how long the 365s lasted on the Ashford route, but it wasn’t long before they were concentrated on the Chatham side, doing mainly Victoria to Dover / Ramsgate. I’m not sure if they still did any occasional work via Ashford after that change.

The hybrid NSE / Connex livery suited them well, especially when clean. Had more been ordered then it’s almost certain the fleet would form the Kent Coast fleet for some years to come.

Now all in the bin simply because the DFT’s civil servants made a mess of things.

 

[DustyBin]

I remember a couple of trips to Kent in their very early days, when amongst the usual diet of CEP/CIG/VEP they were quite a novelty.

In those days it was possible to do, and indeed I once or twice did, GN to King’s Cross, Victoria to Margate via Chatham, spend a few hours in Margate, Margate to Charing Cross via Canterbury West and Maidstone East, then home from KX, all four trains being brand new 365s, still with that “new train” smell. In their early days first class had curtains, which along with the green colour scheme produced a very calming atmosphere indeed.

I forget how long the 365s lasted on the Ashford route, but it wasn’t long before they were concentrated on the Chatham side, doing mainly Victoria to Dover / Ramsgate. I’m not sure if they still did any occasional work via Ashford after that change.

The hybrid NSE / Connex livery suited them well, especially when clean. Had more been ordered then it’s almost certain the fleet would form the Kent Coast fleet for some years to come.

Now all in the bin simply because the DFT’s civil servants made a mess of things.

Interesting memories, thanks. I did occasionally travel on them in their DC days, they were actually very nice trains in their own right. I think I may have once travelled on one out of Kings Cross in their very early days but it’s a vague memory as I was only young. If I recall we were getting the train back up North and having arrived at the station hours early I badgered by Dad to take me for a ride on a train. We probably only went to Finsbury Park or somewhere but it will have kept me quiet for a bit!

 

[D365]

The first train that I remember from my childhood. I don’t normally get excited about farewells but I am glad that I made an exception for the 365s.

 

[bramling]

The first train that I remember from my childhood. I don’t normally get excited about farewells but I am glad that I made an exception for the 365s.

One thing about the 365s is they slipped into service relatively painlessly. Apart from the issue with traction motor mountings (ISTR there was an 80 mph restriction for a time) their introduction was pretty smooth.

I do recall there was a small amount of complaints in Kent that the seats were less padded than the Mk1s, however this doesn’t seem to have been repeated on the GN side - they were immediately highly popular. I remember the local media being out and about and a passenger commented how privatisation had brought such nice new trains - until it was pointed out the units were ordered under BR!

 

[Strathclyder]

Two quality images of them with Connex courtesy of Martin Loader (hondawanderer) linked below. The Connex livery really did suit them, even it was not very practical in regards to being kept clean.

Looking back, I think I only ever managed one ride on a 365 (Stevenage - Peterborough) when returning from visiting distant relatives in the former, way back in 2003/2004 iirc. A total waste that they've been binned this early, as has been said numerous times already. I'll always regret not bashing the ScotRail ones.

365502 Westwell Leacon 14 February 1998

365504 Swanley 9 August 1997

 

[Magdalia]

One thing about the 365s is they slipped into service relatively painlessly. Apart from the issue with traction motor mountings (ISTR there was an 80 mph restriction for a time) their introduction was pretty smooth.

No, their introduction on the GN was protracted and a bit painful.

The traction motor mountings also led to gearbox problems. For much of 1997 the highest Hornsey got up to was 18 diagrams.

There were at least 2 electrical fires.

365534 was prototype for modified software which was eventually rolled out to all of the GN units.

365540 and 365541 were stored at Ilford and didn't enter service until 1998.

Later there were coupling problems including trains dividing at high speed.

 

[CBlue]

I didn't have the pleasure of travelling on the units regularly until the late 2000s in First Capital Connect days, before Great Northern refurbished them and made them far less cosy inside - although admittedly the interior was starting to get pretty scruffy on some. Always found them a refreshing change from the 317's that I regularly used to catch, especially as they were far quieter and more civilised at speed along the ECML on the named "Cambridge Express" services which always felt a little bit of a cut above when leaving Kings' Cross!

 

[Hadders]

With Stevenage being my local station I travelled on the 365s thousands of times over their 35 years of service.

Nothing quite like a hot summers evening and 100mph run on the down fast with all the windows open. A real wind in the hair experience
The interior was great for the services they operated, with plenty of standing room. A shame to see them dumbed down at each refresh but they were still very decent units
Comfortable 2+2 seats, appropriate sized small seat back tables
The trianguler tables in the bays were designed to allow faster boarding and alighting
First class provision was the right size
And the whining motor sound was absolutely fantastic!

 

[bramling]

No, their introduction on the GN was protracted and a bit painful.

The traction motor mountings also led to gearbox problems. For much of 1997 the highest Hornsey got up to was 18 diagrams.

There were at least 2 electrical fires.

365534 was prototype for modified software which was eventually rolled out to all of the GN units.

365540 and 365541 were stored at Ilford and didn't enter service until 1998.

Later there were coupling problems including trains dividing at high speed.

Whilst this was going on behind the scenes, it was largely invisible to the end user. One exception, which is presumably related to the new software as mentioned above, was the destination displays and internal PIS was inoperative for the early months (not sure if this included the Connex units as well?).

 

[Magdalia]

Whilst this was going on behind the scenes, it was largely invisible to the end user. One exception, which is presumably related to the new software as mentioned above, was the destination displays and internal PIS was inoperative for the early months (not sure if this included the Connex units as well?).

It was very visible on trains to Cambridge and the Fens, where diagrams were complicated by splitting and joining.

From January to May 1997 only a few trains were class 365s, I only ever used to encounter them on the 1843 or 2300 departures from Kings Cross.

With the summer 1997 timetable change most of the trains that had continued with class 317s switched to class 365s, but most of the trains that had been class 365s reverted back to class 317s. This was a great credit to the long term planners who had devised the unit diagrams on a two thirds/one third split. But it was very visible, especially to those commuters that used the trains that switched to class 365s and then back to class 317s. Commuters are acutely aware of the difference between class 317s and class 365s because the doors are in different places when the train stops: someone stood in "pole position" for a seat on a class 365 finds themselves standing if the train is class 317s.

My recollection is that things did not settle down properly until 1998.

 

[Galvanize]

Time to share again the only photo I took of these in Connex services, of the (recently deceased) 502 (even though I rode on them regularly back then). The curse of ignoring new stuff whilst concentrating on taking pictures of slam door trains!

Ahhhh…loved the Connex 365s back in the day. I remember seeing them at Victoria or around the Medway Towns (when my Old Man was living in Rochester)…but only went on the Connex South Eastern ones a couple of times…even then it was just between Bromley South and Victoria on a Travelcard day out with either my Mum or my Granddad. All other times it was either Slam Door Stock or brand new 375s, but it was never a case of deliberately avoiding them, it was simply just what turned up.

In retrospect, I’m surprised the DC 365s never saw use on the then peak hour Charing Cross-Tunbridge Wells shorts which employed 75mph 465s with 2+3 seats and no First Class (this was pre 465/9 “Weald” Refresh)…maybe that was down to Crew Knowledge or perhaps, not enough 365s to go round. Would have been ideal for the Well-to-do Commuters from around Sevenoaks and down to Tunbridge Wells!

 

[ashkeba]

I do recall there was a small amount of complaints in Kent that the seats were less padded than the Mk1s, however this doesn’t seem to have been repeated on the GN side - they were immediately highly popular.

I think they would have been compared to Class 317 which probably meant 3+2 low seating back then, so the 365s would have seemed like a proper upgrade to Express standard.

 

[bspahh]

They were OK, so long the couplings were working, and you didn't try and sit near one of the stinking toilets.

 

[Magdalia]

I think they would have been compared to Class 317 which probably meant 3+2 low seating back then, so the 365s would have seemed like a proper upgrade to Express standard.

Class 317 never had low backed seating, that was class 313.

The original class 317 seating, the red and brown tartan with the big chrome grab handles, was very uncomfortable, but that didn't last long. I may not be remembering this correctly, having never kept decent records of internal modifications, but I think the original seating had already been replaced before the class 365s arrived.

The class 317/2 to 317/6 refurbish was designed to match the class 365 interior as far as possible.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2022 ==

They were OK, so long the couplings were working, and you didn't try and sit near one of the stinking toilets.

I nearly always sat in the middle saloon of one of the driving cars, well away from the toilets.

I didn't travel First Class but have been told that the ride could be rough at front and rear of the train. Experienced First Class passengers headed for cars 4 and 5 in an 8 car.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

One thing about the 365s is they slipped into service relatively painlessly. Apart from the issue with traction motor mountings (ISTR there was an 80 mph restriction for a time) their introduction was pretty smooth.

I was working in Ely and living in Cambridge from 1995 to 96. I remember the 365s sitting in the sidings in Cambridge for what seemed like ages before they were brought into service... as I was on an uncomfortable, tatty old WAGN 317.

 

[nw1]

I think I only used 365s once, to and from Cambridge on 17th January 1998. I'd previously visited Cambridge in 1993 using 317s, and the main impression I got was that the 365 was a step-up in comfort (though the 317s weren't bad either) and a very modern-feeling train.

Never used, or saw, them on the South Eastern; but if they were concentrated on the Chatham routes that would figure.

I'd never have guessed they'd be gone 20-odd years later. As an aside, it's remarkable how frequently the Cambridge route has changed stock, if the 35-year rule was followed it'd still be using 365s up to around 2032!

 

[bramling]

I think I only used 365s once, to and from Cambridge on 17th January 1998. I'd previously visited Cambridge in 1993 using 317s, and the main impression I got was that the 365 was a step-up in comfort (though the 317s weren't bad either) and a very modern-feeling train.

Never used, or saw, them on the South Eastern; but if they were concentrated on the Chatham routes that would figure.

I'd never have guessed they'd be gone 20-odd years later. As an aside, it's remarkable how frequently the Cambridge route has changed stock, if the 35-year rule was followed it'd still be using 365s up to around 2032!

On SE from what I remember they were initially introduced on Charing Cross to Margate via Maidstone East and Canterbury West. Victoria to Ramsgate via Chatham followed. I’m not sure if they went down to Dover at that point.

After a while there was a change and they were concentrated on the Chatham side, dividing at Faversham with a portion running to Dover.

That was essentially that, though I seem to remember some timetables had the odd peak shoulder trip elsewhere, for example I remember at one point there was a trip along the Bexleyheath line in the late afternoon.

With only 16 units they were always fairly thinly spread on SE, though like WAGN the operator did make some effort to deploy them where they felt there would be the most beneficial impact.

 

[Non Multi]

I did a return trip from London to Cambridge in the autumn of 2001. The return leg was a non-stop 'Cambridge Cruiser'. That's still to this day one of the most enjoyable train journeys I've ever experienced. Such a pleasant train to travel on board.

Obviously, as I wasn't a regular passenger on these units I wouldn't know much about their shortcomings, so the only disappointment from my perspective (on the Great Western suburban corridor) was that they were passed over in favour of a new build fleet of 387s. That clearly had cost, training and operational benefits over the planned mixed fleet of cascaded 387s, 365s and 319s.

 

[brad465]

This was me travelling either to/from Margate on a 365 when they did the summer specials via the North Kent line, which were the only occasions I remember riding on them during their CSE days:



I had observed them on other occasions, and as I was around 7 at the time, and they were a real curveball in my attention to detail of how Networkers looked and sounded, as they sounded like Met Cam units but looked like BREL 465s on the outside, coupled with the much fancier interior. I was only when I was older and had internet access, combined with FCC use of them, that I realised why that was.

 

[LowLevel]

I never really had much to do with them myself but as a guard on the Eastern side of the Midlands I bumped into them at Peterborough and Ely frequently and found them to be impressive looking machines that were popular with the commuters.

My 153 on the Joint line train in particular looked very dated when platform sharing with them. Compared to the 317s chuntering away to themselves they looked very modern indeed.

 

[ashkeba]

Class 317 never had low backed seating, that was class 313.

The original class 317 seating, the red and brown tartan with the big chrome grab handles, was very uncomfortable, but that didn't last long. I may not be remembering this correctly, having never kept decent records of internal modifications, but I think the original seating had already been replaced before the class 365s arrived.

The class 317/2 to 317/6 refurbish was designed to match the class 365 interior as far as possible.

Maybe I was confusing what served Ely before the 365s with services south of Cambridge. 317, 313,... not names different for me to remind easily.

What did the 317s have in 1996 when the 365s started arriving? Wikipedia (I know) suggests the 317/6 project started in 1998, after the 365s had all arrived. Pictures on there look like 3+2 seating with the top of the seat back barely above the bottom of the windows. Low, but not as low as some of the really low-backed seats where you used to feel like you were on a small box on the floor. 365s would have seemed a big upgrade from that.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Crap low-backed blue check seats IIRC. Certainly 3+2. Bottom of the windows sounds about right.

 

[Magdalia]

In the class 317/1 the height of the backrest did not change, but my memory is that when the red tartan and chrome grab handles were replaced, the class 317/1 seats were a bit higher off the floor. That may just have been more padded seat cushions. The headrest on a class 317 was higher than on a class 365, and better for sleeping!