Class 365 Future

[RobShipway]

I know that the first 16 class 365's where originally class 465 that had the 3rd rail shoe gear removed, so I was wondering how easy a task is it to add it back on to the trains, but still keep the pantograph as well?

The reason for the question is I was wondering if the class 365 possibly could be used to replace some of the class 507/508 fleet with alteration to be three car trains?

 

[northwichcat]

Unless Merseytravel change their minds they are looking at new stock not cascaded stock and have produced an OJEU and drawn up a shortlist of manufacturers.

 

[JN114]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=131592

 

[bramling]

I know that the first 16 class 365's where originally class 465 that had the 3rd rail shoe gear removed, so I was wondering how easy a task is it to add it back on to the trains, but still keep the pantograph as well?

The reason for the question is I was wondering if the class 365 possibly could be used to replace some of the class 507/508 fleet with alteration to be three car trains?

My understanding is that removal of one vehicle is not a readily viable option, as equipment is distributed throughout the train.

(Whether it is physically possible with lots of work is another matter).

 

[glbotu]

I know that the first 16 class 365's where originally class 465 that had the 3rd rail shoe gear removed, so I was wondering how easy a task is it to add it back on to the trains, but still keep the pantograph as well?

The reason for the question is I was wondering if the class 365 possibly could be used to replace some of the class 507/508 fleet with alteration to be three car trains?

I mean, you'd have to wholly re-traction the train, not because of the 3rd rail, but because a Class 365 is a 100mph EMU and would not enjoy being turned into a 75mph EMU, which spends most of its time sub-50mph. The scope of works would be probably much greater than the work to turn the 458/0s and 460s into 458/5s (which was largely done because the traction package could kind of cope already). Also, what bramling said about distribution of equipment.

 

[pdeaves]

I know that the first 16 class 365's where originally class 465 that had the 3rd rail shoe gear removed, so I was wondering how easy a task is it to add it back on to the trains, but still keep the pantograph as well?

Were they not all built as bi-voltage units, not as 465s? They were used as different fleets, definitely, and no doubt each sub-fleet lost the bits it didn't need over time.

 

[glbotu]

Were they not all built as bi-voltage units, not as 465s? They were used as different fleets, definitely, and no doubt each sub-fleet lost the bits it didn't need over time.

Not bi-voltage (like 319s), just, they could be easily converted, but yeah, 365s were considered different in the South East from 465s.

 

[Mordac]

None of this really matters are Merseytravel are tendering for new trains anyway. I really want 365 to have a future, they're my favourite pre-privatisation EMU by far, but it's not with them!

 

[swt class 450]

Maybe all of these 365s could be converted back to third rail and be transferred to Southeastern to increase capacity and allow more 12 coach trains to operate along with the 465s and 466s trains.

 

[ScotGG]

Maybe all of these 365s could be converted back to third rail and be transferred to Southeastern to increase capacity and allow more 12 coach trains to operate along with the 465s and 466s trains.

Often brought up but a couple of issues -

1) No SDO I think. Needed at Woolwich Dockyard and Charing Cross and maybe some other places.

2) Not all can be converted to third rail

 

[CosherB]

I know that the first 16 class 365's where originally class 465 that had the 3rd rail shoe gear removed, so I was wondering how easy a task is it to add it back on to the trains, but still keep the pantograph as well?

The reason for the question is I was wondering if the class 365 possibly could be used to replace some of the class 507/508 fleet with alteration to be three car trains?

A quick internet search would have shown you that removing one carriage is a non-starter:

Basic equipment consists of:

DMOC A – 4x 3-phase AC traction motors, traction inverter, sander
TOSL – Compressor, auxiliary converter, disabled toilet
PTOSL – Pantograph, transformer, auxiliary converter, small toilet
DMOC B – 4x 3-phase AC traction motors, traction inverter, sander

 

[swt class 450]

Often brought up but a couple of issues -

1) No SDO I think. Needed at Woolwich Dockyard and Charing Cross and maybe some other places.

2) Not all can be converted to third rail

Yes good points. Surely SDO is fairly simple and easy to install though? Why are they not able to be converted to third rail? There must be a way to convert them although im not sure how much work and money would be involved?

 

[chubs]

I know that the first 16 class 365's where originally class 465 that had the 3rd rail shoe gear removed, so I was wondering how easy a task is it to add it back on to the trains, but still keep the pantograph as well?

They were still 365 when they were in SE land

 

[D365]

They were still 365 when they were in SE land

Yes exactly. They're totally different to the Class 465s. Why has nobody pointed this out sooner.

However, if I had my way, Great Northern would be keeping all of them. The punters don't seem too impressed with the reduction in seating capacity on the 387s...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes good points. Surely SDO is fairly simple and easy to install though? Why are they not able to be converted to third rail? There must be a way to convert them although im not sure how much work and money would be involved?

Lots of money and work. Hence why the 465s have not been retrofitted [with SDO].

 

[MK Tom]

Are the 365s remaining with Great Northern now or will 700s/387s replace them too? I'm struggling to figure what's happening to the GN 317/321/365 fleet now.

 

[bramling]

Yes good points. Surely SDO is fairly simple and easy to install though? Why are they not able to be converted to third rail? There must be a way to convert them although im not sure how much work and money would be involved?

Whilst SDO is relatively easy to install on a modern software-based train, I have a feeling the Networkers just pre-date this. I think this is why it's not been pursued for the 465s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are the 365s remaining with Great Northern now or will 700s/387s replace them too? I'm struggling to figure what's happening to the GN 317/321/365 fleet now.

In the first instance the 387s are replacing all of the 317s and 321s plus I believe also achieving a slight reduction in 365 work.

Over time the 700s will then displace 387s onto express Cambridge work, leaving the 365s to take up the balance.

I'm unclear as to whether the diagrams are being re-jigged in the meantime (December?) to put the 387s onto the express work and shuffle the 365s onto what is now 317/321 work. Whatever happens, the three morning peak 8-car Cambridge to King's Cross stopping trains (6x diagrams) will need to be 387s as they will require SDO operation at Foxton, Shepreth and Meldreth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

However, if I had my way, Great Northern would be keeping all of them. The punters don't seem too impressed with the reduction in seating capacity on the 387s...

Mine too.

Although the Electrostar is not a bad train at all, from the passenger point of view the 365 is a more suitable train, notwithstanding the lack of air conditioning.

 

[physics34]

Are the 365s remaining with Great Northern now or will 700s/387s replace them too? I'm struggling to figure what's happening to the GN 317/321/365 fleet now.

387s to GN
Half of the 365s to remain with GN
The rest of the 365s its not known where they are going yet (well at least us meer mortals dont know)
The 317s and 321s are rumoured to be going to Great Anglia i believe.

 

[buses7675]

None of this really matters are Merseytravel are tendering for new trains anyway. I really want 365 to have a future, they're my favourite pre-privatisation EMU by far, but it's not with them!

As I understand they can't run on Merseyrail anyway as there is no gangway door/cab end door which I believe is a requirement due to the single bore tunnels.

 

[bramling]

As I understand they can't run on Merseyrail anyway as there is no gangway door/cab end door which I believe is a requirement due to the single bore tunnels.

It's definitely a requirement on the Wirral Line, however I have a feeling it may not be on the Northern Line - for what it's worth.

 

[D365]

For the Merseyrail fleet replacement, surely just an add-on order of Class 717s would be suitable? Assuming the infrastructure can take it - and their wallets.

 

[RobShipway]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=131592

Sorry for duplicating to the thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=131592, but I do do a search for Class 365 and do not find the above mentioned thread.

Thank you to those that have responded with comments to this thread so far.

 

[swt class 450]

Maybe then the best option would be that Great Northern should just keep the entire fleet of 365s. This could then allow them to run many more 12 coach trains.