Class 360 Heathrow Connect

[paulravuslante]

Personally i do also think it is a waste of a unit to run this shuttle service. With some good planning it is perfectly possible to run both the Heathrow Connect and the T123 to T4 shuttle service with just three units. This means they would operate on a PAD - T123 - T4 - T123 - T4 - T123 - PAD diagram every hour and a half each. This would ensure that T123 to T4 still get four trains per hour (every fifteen minutes in each direction). This would very much increase reliability and flexibility by meaning there would be two spare units a day (just like there used to be) instead of only one spare unit a day.

I must say this shuttle has a very long and complex history:

Firstly Heathrow Express trains only ran to Heathrow Airport junction which was a (now closed) station near Hayes & Harlington where passengers had to change for buses to the terminals. Then when T123 station opened Heathrow Express trains started running through to T123 station. Then a few years later T4 opened and Heathrow Express trains started running through to T4 station. Shortly after the Heathrow Connect was introduced but only ran to T123 station but shortly after was extended to run to T4 station as well (meaning T123 to T4 had six trains per hour). Then T5 opened which meant that all Heathrow Express trains would run to T5 station while all Heathrow Connect trains would run to T4 station. This meant that T123 to T4 only had two trains per hour while T123 to T5 had four trains per hour. A few years later it was decided to run all Heathrow Connect trains (as well as the Heathrow Express trains) to T5 which meant that T123 to T5 had six trains per hour. At the same time the shuttle was introduced between T123 and T4 which gave them four trains per hour (the shuttle just ran back and fourth every day every fifteen minutes). For this shuttle 360 205 was refurbished and repainted from Heathrow Connect to Heathrow Express livery and had the seating converted from 3+2 to 2+2 and had the toilets locked out of use. Although in reality 360 201 / 360 202 / 360 203 / 360 204 often appear on the shuttle while 360 205 often appears on the mainline Heathrow Connect services. This arrangement lasted for quite a few years until last year when Heathrow Connect services where diverted back to T4 but the shuttle also continues to run. This means that T123 to T4 now has an increased service of six trains per hour (instead of four trains per hour) but T123 to T5 now has a reduced service of four trains per hour (instead of six trains per hour).

This will get even more complicating soon when Crossrail starts as Crossrail will replace the Heathrow Connect services. This will mean that all Crossrail services will go to T4 (four trains per hour) while all Heathrow Express services will go to T5 (four trains per hour).

T4 has only ever generally had 4 trains an hour, currently with a 10 or 20 minute gap between departures (2 shuttles and 2 connects). Previously it had a 15 minute service but this requires a driver to be placed on both ends of the unit due to the turnaround times at each end. A shortage of drivers has meant that this had to be abandoned on Mondays to Fridays but this still occurs generally on Saturdays with the 2 Connects continuing to T5 instead.

On a Sunday there are 5 trains an hour on an uneven frequency due to the Connect going directly to/ from T4. The Connect and shuttle service is operated with 3 units on a Sunday, when the Connect runs once an hour, so I'm not sure how you worked out that it would be possible to do this with a half hourly service. The enhanced shuttle service on a Sunday is only possible as HEx operates to a different timetable, which sometimes makes the journey from PAD to T5 longer on some journeys. Don't forget that there is only a single line tunnel between T4 and T2&3 so this restricts the frequency of trains and causes problems when trains start arriving late.

I will be interested to see how Crossrail get around this problem. HEx recently tried an experiment to see if trains could split at T2&3 with half going to T4 and the other to T5. However the experiment ended in disaster when trains ran late or had problems coupling up and was swiftly abandoned.

The Heathrow Connect website makes it difficult to work out (IMO) that it serves T4. The maps make it look like it only runs PAD to Heathrow Central.

There is a reason for this. Trains can be diverted at short notice to either T4 or T5 depending on operational requirements (usually a failed train on the Shuttle). I've experienced this many times when driving these services.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Everything changed for T4 when BA moved out and into their shiny new T5, which is now 9 years ago.
T4's importance took a further knock-back when the new T2 opened in 2014 and number of airlines moved across to the new terminal.

Looking forward, when phase 2 of T2 is delivered (doubling its size), there will be further redistribution of airlines and passenger traffic.
The fully developed T2 will replace T3 and allow T5 to expand (D gates).
T4 will likely lose some traffic in this process.

If built, the R3 proposal includes another large new terminal (currently referred to as T6), which will not only accommodate the extra passenger traffic, but will see further consolidation in terminal usage. That may well result in T4 coming to the end of its useful life.
2026/27 ???

In light of this, I find it bizarre that currently, Crossrail is only penned to serve T4?
Add the HS2 OOC interchange to the mix (2026/27 !!!) and I think its clear a change will have to take place within a few years of Crossrail becoming fully operational.

 

[D365]

Add the HS2 OOC interchange to the mix (2026/27 !!!) and I think its clear a change will have to take place within a few years of Crossrail becoming fully operational.

HEx (or its successor) is implied to be calling at OOC.

 

[3141]

Not all passengers for Heathrow, either now or in the future, will come from the City or Canary Wharf. There are large areas of London which will not be affected by Crossrail and for some of these Paddington will remain a useful node. Paddington is convenient for large areas of Kensington and Chelsea, Notting Hill, St. Johns Wood, Camden, Marylebone and Westminster which are not served by Crossrail at all. For all these and similar areas such as those on the Bakerloo Line corridor south of about Willesden to Lambeth a fast service to Heathrow with a change at Paddington will remain attractive.

I think you're absolutely right. Most of the flights I get from Heathrow are from T4. I live in Hampshire and my local station has one train per hour. I can get the airport coach from Woking, but train times mean I'll have a 50-minute wait there. The coach takes me to T5, so then I have a choice of trundling my case more than half the length of the bus station and waiting for a bus to T4, or I can get HEx. On the way home I usually reach Heathrow at about 7.30 pm, and by the time I'm through immigration and collected my case the coach back to Woking and the train from there are not an attractive option, with long waiting times. Travelling via central London is much easier.

OK, on arrival at Waterloo I could get the tube all the way to T4, but that means at least one change, and depending on the time of day having the case is not convenient. The Bakerloo Line to Paddington is straightforward, and as the trains have only started at Elephant and Castle they have plenty of space when I get on, though they fill up quickly. When Crossrail is open I will certainly try the tube to either Tottenham Court Road or Bond Street and Crossrail from there. It may depend on the distance involved in the interchange. I may conclude that though HEx is more expensive its cheaper advance tickets make it affordable and its convenience is worth paying for.

 

[BananaRepublic]

HEx (or its successor) is implied to be calling at OOC.

There's a whole debate about OOC HS2 station, regarding the GWML main/fast lines and whether all trains on the mains will stop, or only some, or none at all.
The implications for main line capacity, resulting from some or all trains stopping is one of the main issues, apparently.

If it's decided no trains will stop, then there's a possibility that no platforms will be provided on the main lines, which would be a turn around on everything we've be lead to expect up to now.
If HEX survives post-2023 and there are either no platforms, or no capacity for a stop on the mains, then the relief lines are the only option for the service, if it survives and in whatever form it takes if it does.

 

[JaJaWa]

The Heathrow Connect website makes it difficult to work out (IMO) that it serves T4. The maps make it look like it only runs PAD to Heathrow Central.

I believe that's correct that it only runs Paddington – Heathrow Central, except on Sundays when it runs Paddington – Heathrow Central – Terminal 4.

Terminal 4 is just served by the HEx shuttle Heathrow Central – Terminal 4, Monday to Saturday.

Things used to be different but the airport didn't want the Connect having any advantages over the Express. The Connect even (did/does?) run 'not for passenger use' between Central and Terminal 4/5 Monday to Saturday.

 

[Nippy]

Currently the Connect runs to Terminal 4 between the Shuttles. (Weekends subject to change).

It did used to run ECS to T5 when the shuttle was running 4 per hour between CTA and T4.

 

[JaJaWa]

Looks like the Wikipedia articles need updating again then!

 

[Mikey C]

I think you're absolutely right. Most of the flights I get from Heathrow are from T4. I live in Hampshire and my local station has one train per hour. I can get the airport coach from Woking, but train times mean I'll have a 50-minute wait there. The coach takes me to T5, so then I have a choice of trundling my case more than half the length of the bus station and waiting for a bus to T4, or I can get HEx. On the way home I usually reach Heathrow at about 7.30 pm, and by the time I'm through immigration and collected my case the coach back to Woking and the train from there are not an attractive option, with long waiting times. Travelling via central London is much easier.

OK, on arrival at Waterloo I could get the tube all the way to T4, but that means at least one change, and depending on the time of day having the case is not convenient. The Bakerloo Line to Paddington is straightforward, and as the trains have only started at Elephant and Castle they have plenty of space when I get on, though they fill up quickly. When Crossrail is open I will certainly try the tube to either Tottenham Court Road or Bond Street and Crossrail from there. It may depend on the distance involved in the interchange. I may conclude that though HEx is more expensive its cheaper advance tickets make it affordable and its convenience is worth paying for.

But then even if you are starting from Paddington, you could take Crossrail instead of HEx. How many people will pay extra for the HEx service to save less than 10 minutes? Some will, but far fewer than now where the Connect trains only run every 30 minutes and get rammed during the rush hour.

 

[xotGD]

But then even if you are starting from Paddington, you could take Crossrail instead of HEx. How many people will pay extra for the HEx service to save less than 10 minutes? Some will, but far fewer than now where the Connect trains only run every 30 minutes and get rammed during the rush hour.

The vast majority of passengers, especially visitors from outside of the UK, have no idea that there is a cheaper alternative to Heathrow Express. That's how they make their money.

 

[Mikey C]

The vast majority of passengers, especially visitors from outside of the UK, have no idea that there is a cheaper alternative to Heathrow Express. That's how they make their money.

At the moment yes, as Heathrow Connect is a low profile service.

Crossrail (The Elizabeth Line) will be very different, plastered all over Tube Maps

 

[coppercapped]

The vast majority of passengers, especially visitors from outside of the UK, have no idea that there is a cheaper alternative to Heathrow Express. That's how they make some of their money.

There - made the statement universally true for you.

As many visitors from abroad will have seen the TfL Tube maps, I suppose also your statement means they can't read maps as they obviously don't understand that the Piccadilly Line also exists.

 

[NickBucks]

Anyone know what the train proposals are for the new terminal ( not the T3 replacement). I assume this will have to be included in the equation ?

 

[w1bbl3]

The vast majority of passengers, especially visitors from outside of the UK, have no idea that there is a cheaper alternative to Heathrow Express. That's how they make their money.

Overseas travellers and TBH many not local to London will probably use google to plan their route to/from Heathrow.

I'd expect how large a model shift is generated from HEx to Crossrail will depend on how the journey planner treats the two services a 10 minute connection at Paddington will probably see Crossrail come out as faster on anything where a connection can be made further along the route. The direct interchanges with Jubilee, Central and Northern lines will help weight in favour of crossrail. Remember Paddington for most isn't the ultimate destination but merely a transit point to somewhere else.

 

[coppercapped]

Remember Paddington for most isn't the ultimate destination but merely a transit point to somewhere else.

That statement is true for all the London termini - it is probably true for any railway station in the country.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Anyone know what the train proposals are for the new terminal ( not the T3 replacement). I assume this will have to be included in the equation ?

T6 (the commonly used working title) is planned to be built back-to-back with T5, facing west.
They will be linked together, by close proximity and from the promotional material released by HAL, it appears they'll share an enlarged T5 station, which by then will already include the activated western rail link platforms.


F

 

[Kite159]

Even with crossrail up and running, I can still see a market for Heathrow Express, one which allows passengers with luggage to board an unit which remains on a platform for ~15 minutes, allowing said passengers to get a seat.

Better than crowding on Paddington Low-Level for a crowded 345 to roll in from the East without much in the way of dwell times to slowly empty out on route at the likes of Ealing/Southall/Hayes.

 

[swt class 450]

Currently the Connect runs to Terminal 4 between the Shuttles. (Weekends subject to change).

It did used to run ECS to T5 when the shuttle was running 4 per hour between CTA and T4.

The Heathrow Connect has never run ECS to T5. It always ran in passenger service to T5 but just wasnt advertised that much. However passengers were always permitted to stay onboard and board and alight at T5.

 

[Nippy]

The Heathrow Connect has never run ECS to T5. It always ran in passenger service to T5 but just wasnt advertised that much. However passengers were always permitted to stay onboard and board and alight at T5.

Hmmmmm are you sure? I think about 5 years ago the trains used to run down to CTA then change head codes to class 5....... But hey, what would I know? I was only watching them on my signalling screens!

 

[matt_world2004]

Why? First don't have anything to do with Heathrow Express. Neither Heathrow Connect between the Airport and Hayes, or Heathrow Express on the whole route are part of National Rail.

They use them as conractors to provide their franchise committments between Hayes and Paddington

 

[swt class 450]

Hmmmmm are you sure? I think about 5 years ago the trains used to run down to CTA then change head codes to class 5....... But hey, what would I know? I was only watching them on my signalling screens!

Yes i am 100% sure that they definitely carried passengers to and from T5. I went on the Heathrow Connect to and from T5 many times myself. For some reason the timetables (both online and paper copies) only showed them as going to T123 (i imagine this was probably just a scam to get T5 passengers to pay for the Heathrow Express services) but passengers were always permitted to travel to and from T5. The automated announcements onboard and the screens at T123 and T5 stations also announced and displayed them as going to and from T5.

 

[Nippy]

Yes i am 100% sure that they definitely carried passengers to and from T5. I went on the Heathrow Connect to and from T5 many times myself. For some reason the timetables (both online and paper copies) only showed them as going to T123 (i imagine this was probably just a scam to get T5 passengers to pay for the Heathrow Express services) but passengers were always permitted to travel to and from T5. The automated announcements onboard and the screens at T123 and T5 stations also announced and displayed them as going to and from T5.

Always though? Since they started? They used to go ECS to T5 and have the security sweep whilst they went.

 

[JaJaWa]

Yes i am 100% sure that they definitely carried passengers to and from T5. I went on the Heathrow Connect to and from T5 many times myself. For some reason the timetables (both online and paper copies) only showed them as going to T123 (i imagine this was probably just a scam to get T5 passengers to pay for the Heathrow Express services) but passengers were always permitted to travel to and from T5. The automated announcements onboard and the screens at T123 and T5 stations also announced and displayed them as going to and from T5.

Definitely not always

 

[swt class 450]

Always though? Since they started? They used to go ECS to T5 and have the security sweep whilst they went.

Definitely not always

That is a good point. I think the Heathrow Connect trains started going to T5 at some point in 2010 and reverted back to serving T4 instead last year in 2016. Off the top of my head i can't remember if they took passengers to and from T5 from right at the beginning. So it is possible they were ECS at one point. They definitely all went to and from T5 in passenger service during their last year or so before they got switched back to T4.

 

[Nippy]

Definitely not always

That is a good point. I think the Heathrow Connect trains started going to T5 at some point in 2010 and reverted back to serving T4 instead last year in 2016. Off the top of my head i can't remember if they took passengers to and from T5 from right at the beginning. So it is possible they were ECS at one point. They definitely all went to and from T5 in passenger service during their last year or so before they got switched back to T4.

That's true, it was longer ago than 5 years ago. I can't quite believe I'd been working at TVSC for over 5 years. It was while we were still at Slough IECC.

 

[paulravuslante]

The Heathrow Connect has never run ECS to T5. It always ran in passenger service to T5 but just wasnt advertised that much. However passengers were always permitted to stay onboard and board and alight at T5.

No, it did really used to go out of service between Central and T5. It used to frustrate a lot of staff and passengers. I think when we stopped needing to have staff onboard it got changed rather than being for customer benefit.

 

[paulravuslante]

I use Heathrow Connect from/to Ealing Broadway, and what annoys me about it is that it stops at the far end of the platform from the entrance/exit to the platform, so requiring a 100 yard walk/run up the platform; the shuttle train also does this - I would have thought that this would be a safety issue, as it would leave an unprotected platform edge. Can anybody enlighten me why it does this as it is not very

Since we went to Driver Only dispatch all trains stop at the end of the platform to make use of the monitors installed there for that purpose and also for consistency.

 

[swt class 450]

Does anyone know if they are planning to repaint and convert 360 205 back in to a Heathrow Connect unit at some point? Or will they not bother seeing as they will all get withdrawn in a few years? I ask because i have noticed that originally when the shuttle was introduced it carried Heathrow Express branding however all of the Heathrow Express branding has now been removed.

 

[332 > 444]

They can't use the same 360 to do all the ITT services as it causes wear and tear on the wheels, so sometimes the other 4 are used or even a 332 which could not keep to time due to its slow acceleration/deceleration when doing the x15 min ITT

 

[Mikey C]

Why were the Heathrow 360s ordered with 5 20m cars, when the other 350/360/450s are all 4 cars units, and the HEx 332s 23m cars? Was this the maximum length that could fit on some of the intermediate platforms?