Class 350's - Long Distance Services

[ac6000cw]

Having grown up in Birmingham with the 'crumbling edge of quality' BR in the 1970's, some of the younger members around here don't know how lucky they are.....

We could only imagine back then 125 mph tilting trains every 20 minutes plus a semi-fast every 30 minutes to Euston, and a re-opened Snow Hill with fast trains to London, all competing for our business......come up and smell the roses !

 

[theshillito]

We're doing experiences with long-distance 350s are we? Well, I haven't had the Transpennine experience yet, but I travel with LondonMidland from Crewe to Euston every couple of months and it's great! I honestly don't mind the longer journey time if it's more comfortable. It's not just the seats, the air conditioning in 350s seem to cope much better in the heat than the 390s, something I've been enjoying lately. It's also in this weather when upgrading to first class has the added benefit of being enclosed on both sides with no external doors (admittedly, you get this as standard on Virgin, but last time I upgraded to first class with LM, it was still cheaper than standard on Virgin). I can understand disliking them if you had to take the long journey frequently though. You'd probably want that extra time either in-bed or partying or whatever.

In regards to on-board shops, I can't say I buy much from them when I'm on a Virgin as I like to buy a bunch from the station (Bite Card holders represent!!) but I agree having the option is nice. However, as mentioned in the thread already, the LM services are several stopping services attached together. People will more likely be traveling shorter distances and won't *need* to buy stuff on-board, compared to those where there's often an hour or so between stops. Alternatively, why aren't there vending machines on trains any more? Do they cost more to maintain than having trolleys or shops, or is there another reason?

 

[ac6000cw]

Alternatively, why aren't there vending machines on trains any more? Do they cost more to maintain than having trolleys or shops, or is there another reason?

I suspect it's maintenance costs versus takings (trains are not a good environment for delicate machinery - to much vibration), the floorspace and the extra rubbish they generate (since far too many passengers seem to assume that a waste fairy magically removes their discarded rubbish after they get off the train).

 

[TSR :D]

Like someone has mentioned here in the thread stating that LM service between London and Birmingham is more intended as two separate services that happens to be joined together to attract passengers looking for a cheaper tickets.

I would say 350/1s are suitable as they feature some of features that are useful for commuters, and they also feature some features that are useful for intercity travel. I can't really see how they would replace 350/1s with another stock without making it unsuitable for either intercity or commuter travel.

 

[scotsman]

Bit off-topic here, but I think you'll find that very few onboard catering departments/businesses make money. Where it's in-house, it's a loss leader. Where it's contracted out, the contractor makes the money from the premium from the TOC.

 

[Hadders]

I thought the maximum speed on the WCML was 110mph unless tilt was fitted when trains can run at an enhanced speed of up to 125mph.

I think the 350/1's are good trains and fit for purpose. While there are people who go end to end from, for example, Euston to Crewe most do not and the layout needs to be suitable for the bulk of what the use is.

To be fair the 350/2's are not quite as good due to the 3+2 seating but we have plenty of trains with such seating across the country and given that passenger numbers are increasing I don't see an easy solution to this one.

 

[infobleep]

I thought the maximum speed on the WCML was 110mph unless tilt was fitted when trains can run at an enhanced speed of up to 125mph.

I think the 350/1's are good trains and fit for purpose. While there are people who go end to end from, for example, Euston to Crewe most do not and the layout needs to be suitable for the bulk of what the use is.

To be fair the 350/2's are not quite as good due to the 3+2 seating but we have plenty of trains with such seating across the country and given that passenger numbers are increasing I don't see an easy solution to this one.

If crowding is really becoming a problem then price long distance commuters off the trains and then that will reduce passenger numbers. Of course passengers could split their tickets but how many passengers actually do that?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Point 1- The speed- Any faster than 110mph and acceleration will start to be impacted therefore not improving speeds at all,you r suggestion for 115mph stock seems a lot of expense to go to for 5mph especially when only south of Rugby via Weedon is 110+ anyway. Nowhere north of rugby (going via Stoke) is above 110 on the slows and if you don't go on the slows you wouldn't call at most stations without continually changing from fast to slow line.

The 115mph comes from the new EU certification standards, which means that manufacturers will be getting 180kph/112mph approval as standard (or is it 190kph/118mph?).
Network Rail/RSSB then have to think whether GB speed limits are appropriate for the new stock, but there are several obstacles to increasing the 110mph maximum without tilt (and TASS to go with it).
And no stock to the new spec has been ordered yet. I'm pretty sure the 387s are limited to 110mph.
6-car Pendolinos may be the answer to some of this if someone takes the plunge and orders some.

The WCML slow line is a dog's breakfast with 110/125EPS on the new section of TV4 (Amington-Armitage), but only 75mph on the non-upgraded sections, eg at Rugeley/Atherstone and between Rugby and Northampton.
At least it's now 100mph between Norton Bridge and Crewe.