Class 350/2 110mph

[anamyd]

True. Yes...but you could free up another 125mph path and fill it with a 10 or 12 car unit.
The 14.46 Eus to Crewe today was inadequately a 4-car 350 with no workjng loos and was allowed a 5 minute loo stop at Rugby

I'm guessing the tanks hadn't been emptied the night before. Lovely

 

[anamyd]

So all 350 subclasses are now 110mph max...? Interesting!

 

[Railperf]

So all 350 subclasses are now 110mph max...? Interesting!

I think so ..

 

[JN114]

3-cars running in multiple might be restricted due to pans being too close together (as were 4-cars for a while).

Depending on which way round the units are you can end up with only 2 vehicles between the pans on an 8 car. I don’t know how much the 350 fleet is turned around, but there are plenty of triangles around Birmingham which could see units back-to-front.

I don’t think 6/9 cars would be an issue for 110 if the 8/12 cars have been cleared.

 

[sd0733]

I'm guessing the tanks hadn't been emptied the night before. Lovely

They had, they were both blocked by people flushing things down that they shouldn't. It was swapped out at Crewe for a fresh unit

 

[Railperf]

So all 350 subclasses are now 110mph max...? Interesting!

110mph running makes a dent in running times. Genuine 90mph+ average speeds achievable despite there being various locations where speed has to be reduced to 90mph. Euston to Milton Keynes - 49.8 miles in 32.5 mins = 91.9mph . Milton Keynes to Rugby - 32.7 miles in 21.5 mins = 91.2mph - easily achieved on a standard scheduled service in wet weather!! In terms of performance - brilliant units with brilliant reliability!! Comfort wise - a buffet or trolley would be handy. Much prefer the light and airy interiors and larger windows compared to a Pendolino!!

 

[AM9]

True. Yes...but you could free up another 125mph path and fill it with a 10 or 12 car unit.
The 14.46 Eus to Crewe today was inadequately a 4-car 350 with no workjng loos and was allowed a 5 minute loo stop at Rugby

The class 350 replacements will be running on most of the LNR/WMT services as required. Creating a few trains that would reduce capacity when running on anything except fast TV services would be an expensive way to re-equip the line.​

Depending on which way round the units are you can end up with only 2 vehicles between the pans on an 8 car. ...

The pantographs are as near to the centre of the 4-car unit as possible so even if two units are 'wrong way round' there would be two whole cars plus two 3/4 lengths of the pantograph cars, i.e. 3 1/2 car lengths or about 70 metres. If they are the mximum length apart, the pantographs will be about 4 1/4 car lengths apart, (about 85-90m) so very little difference. See this diagram:

edit: in fact looking at this diagram again, the pantograph head is about two metres inbourd of the car end (which is the centre of the whols 4-car unit), so the actual points of pantograph contact range between 76m and 84m, so hardly any difference.

 

[anamyd]

They had, they were both blocked by people flushing things down that they shouldn't. It was swapped out at Crewe for a fresh unit

I wonder what those things were...

 

[anamyd]

110mph running makes a dent in running times. Genuine 90mph+ average speeds achievable despite there being various locations where speed has to be reduced to 90mph. Euston to Milton Keynes - 49.8 miles in 32.5 mins = 91.9mph . Milton Keynes to Rugby - 32.7 miles in 21.5 mins = 91.2mph - easily achieved on a standard scheduled service in wet weather!! In terms of performance - brilliant units with brilliant reliability!! Comfort wise - a buffet or trolley would be handy. Much prefer the light and airy interiors and larger windows compared to a Pendolino!!

The first three sentences confuse me.

 

[Railperf]

It is indeed, the crash requirements change at about 115mph hence 110mph as the max speed. The big hit would be losing the front 1/3 of each driving car to non passenger use!

Eurostar e320s do not lose the front 1/3 of their passenger space within end vehicles ...neither do Class 395 Javelins. And both these trains exceed 115mph in daily service. What crash requirements are we talking about?

 

[GW43125]

Eurostar e320s do not lose the front 1/3 of their passenger space within end vehicles ...neither do Class 395 Javelins. And both these trains exceed 115mph in daily service. What crash requirements are we talking about?

With 395s, the entire area forward of the first door is a non-passenger area due to this crash regulation.

It's pretty much so the train can wallop something and not crush the punters, is how I understand it.
Not been on a 374 so can't comment on them.

 

[hwl]

Eurostar e320s do not lose the front 1/3 of their passenger space within end vehicles ...neither do Class 395 Javelins. And both these trains exceed 115mph in daily service. What crash requirements are we talking about?

The TSI ones...
The first third of the length of a driving high speed car can't be used for passenger accomodation. Have a good look at the IEPs (catering /storage area behind the cabs) and pendolinos too. It is a lot less restrictive than the old BR whole leading vehicle rule which lead to the DVTs.

 

[edwin_m]

The requirements may be different if they only exceed 115mph on dedicated high speed lines, where they are under full ATP and there are no level crossings so the two principal causes of collisions are effectively eliminated.

 

[Kettledrum]

! In terms of performance - brilliant units with brilliant reliability!! Comfort wise - a buffet or trolley would be handy. Much prefer the light and airy interiors and larger windows compared to a Pendolino!!

Hmmmmm - passengers probably don't always appreciate the brilliance of these units, particularly when they are short formed. I do like the larger windows but not when you're having to sit on the floor. I've been very happy with them from Birmingham to Liverpool, but on Euston to Milton Keynes or Euston to Northampton sections of the West Coast Mainline you really notice the inferior levels of comfort compared to a Pendolino. Friday's 14.46 Euston to Crewe had families sitting on the floor, until Rugby when first class was declassified. On longer journeys, I normally choose the Virgin Service.

 

[Railperf]

Hmmmmm - passengers probably don't always appreciate the brilliance of these units, particularly when they are short formed. I do like the larger windows but not when you're having to sit on the floor. I've been very happy with them from Birmingham to Liverpool, but on Euston to Milton Keynes or Euston to Northampton sections of the West Coast Mainline you really notice the inferior levels of comfort compared to a Pendolino. Friday's 14.46 Euston to Crewe had families sitting on the floor, until Rugby when first class was declassified. On longer journeys, I normally choose the Virgin Service.

Yes...it is shocking that some services are a solitary 4-car unit!! And on a Saturday there is no excuse as there must be dozens of units stabled in sidings!! That is not a fault of the train..more a fault of the operator! Operational requirements aside ..there seems to be a case to have a fleet of units dedicated to the stopping services used mainly on the slow lines...and a 125mph fleet with buffets etc for the longer distance seme fast services. People will sit on a 2h40 min Crewe service due to LNWRs cheaper pricing.

 

[Class 170101]

Yes...it is shocking that some services are a solitary 4-car unit!! And on a Saturday there is no excuse as there must be dozens of units stabled in sidings!! That is not a fault of the train..more a fault of the operator! Operational requirements aside ..there seems to be a case to have a fleet of units dedicated to the stopping services used mainly on the slow lines...and a 125mph fleet with buffets etc for the longer distance seme fast services. People will sit on a 2h40 min Crewe service due to LNWRs cheaper pricing.

It will be to do with the maintenance regime based on a certain number of miles being operated. Go over a threshold and the price goes up.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes...it is shocking that some services are a solitary 4-car unit!! And on a Saturday there is no excuse as there must be dozens of units stabled in sidings!! That is not a fault of the train..more a fault of the operator! Operational requirements aside ..there seems to be a case to have a fleet of units dedicated to the stopping services used mainly on the slow lines...and a 125mph fleet with buffets etc for the longer distance seme fast services. People will sit on a 2h40 min Crewe service due to LNWRs cheaper pricing.

Single-unit working to Crewe is because of short platforms on the Stoke loop.
That should be eliminated from May with direct operation on the main line.
Your 125mph service with buffet is called a Virgin Pendolino.
LM/WMT have not invested in tilt so can't run at 125mph anyway.

 

[XCTurbostar]

The 3+2 seating in a 350/2 is completely inadequate for long distance.. I cannot wait for these to leave WMTrains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 3+2 seating in a 350/2 is completely inadequate for long distance.. I cannot wait for these to leave WMTrains.

Their replacements are also 3+2.

 

[AM9]

The 3+2 seating in a 350/2 is completely inadequate for long distance.. I cannot wait for these to leave WMTrains.

The 2+3 seated trains are intended to maximise seated capacity for the outer suburban shorter journeys, e.g. Euston to Northampton or Birmingham to Northampton. Both of those journeys take about one hour. Passengers who use LNR trains to go from Euston to Birmingham via Northampton are in effect making two journeys in series using the full 'country ends' of each where there is spare capacity, which is why the low-cost fares are offered.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 2+3 seated trains are intended to maximise seated capacity for the outer suburban shorter journeys, e.g. Euston to Northampton or Birmingham to Northampton. Both of those journeys take about one hour. Passengers who use LNR trains to go from Euston to Birmingham via Northampton are in effect making two journeys in series using the full 'country ends' of each where there is spare capacity, which is why the low-cost fares are offered.

They are intended for that, but a 350/2 was at Crewe today to work the 1455 ish southbound. As one might expect, I declined to "enjoy" this experience.

(Edit: I'd bailed off the southbound "via Brum" Voyager as it was rather busy, intending to board early and sit at the "extra legroom table" at the end to get some work done and take advantage of the longer journey time and more comfortable accommodation. In the end I took the delayed ex-North Wales Voyager and was able to get a table on that).

 

[Silverlinky]

The 730/2's will be 3+2 (29 units) and should be restricted to suburban services but the 730/3's (16 units) will be 2+2 "intercity" style layout and will be dedicated to the fast services.

350/1's, /3's and /4's will still be around, all of which are 2+2 too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 730/2's will be 3+2 (29 units) and should be restricted to suburban services but the 730/3's (16 units) will be 2+2 "intercity" style layout and will be dedicated to the fast services.

Excuse me for having hysterics. The only things LNR (and LM before them) manage to keep on-diagram are Class 319s. I would be quite surprised to see any improvement in that.

I give it a week after introduction for a 3+2-seated Aventra to end up on the Crewes or Liverpools.

 

[43096]

The TSI ones...
The first third of the length of a driving high speed car can't be used for passenger accomodation. Have a good look at the IEPs (catering /storage area behind the cabs) and pendolinos too. It is a lot less restrictive than the old BR whole leading vehicle rule which lead to the DVTs.

Presumably the DB ICE 4 sets now being introduced are designed to meet the relevant TSI for 125mph+ travel. They have the first third of the vehicle used for passenger accommodation: https://www.siemens.com/press/en/pr...016-09-ICE4/im2016090988moen.htm&content[]=MO

 

[Railperf]

Presumably the DB ICE 4 sets now being introduced are designed to meet the relevant TSI for 125mph+ travel. They have the first third of the vehicle used for passenger accommodation: https://www.siemens.com/press/en/pr...016-09-ICE4/im2016090988moen.htm&content[]=MO

Indeed. So are the German ICE3's!! In fact you can sit virtually behind the driver - separated by a glass screen!

 

[Railperf]

Single-unit working to Crewe is because of short platforms on the Stoke loop.
That should be eliminated from May with direct operation on the main line.
Your 125mph service with buffet is called a Virgin Pendolino.
LM/WMT have not invested in tilt so can't run at 125mph anyway.

TPE have not invested in tilt , but that didn't stop them ordering 125mph EMUS for use on the northern WCML. Presumably they are hoping for some dispensation to run on certain sections at 125mph without tilt - probably the straighter sections of track!

 

[Bletchleyite]

TPE have not invested in tilt , but that didn't stop them ordering 125mph EMUS for use on the northern WCML. Presumably they are hoping for some dispensation to run on certain sections at 125mph without tilt - probably the straighter sections of track!

I must admit I did hope for something dedicated for the Crewe semifasts in the LNR franchise. FLIRTs would have been ideal, but the CAF end-doored EMU would also have been an excellent choice.

 

[Railperf]

That should be eliminated from May with direct operation on the main line.
.

What is the plan for these services from May?

 

[Kite159]

Excuse me for having hysterics. The only things LNR (and LM before them) manage to keep on-diagram are Class 319s. I would be quite surprised to see any improvement in that.

I give it a week after introduction for a 3+2-seated Aventra to end up on the Crewes or Liverpools.

And the 2+2 seated ones to find themselves on Milton Keynes/Tring stoppers

 

[sd0733]

Excuse me for having hysterics. The only things LNR (and LM before them) manage to keep on-diagram are Class 319s. I would be quite surprised to see any improvement in that.

I give it a week after introduction for a 3+2-seated Aventra to end up on the Crewes or Liverpools.

Control/fleet are going to have to try much harder to not do so much random allocating of they want this to work. Considering all the 350 fleet will be 2+2 table fitted and a common fleet it does seem mad to add an extra sub-fleet in.