Class 345 progress

[Peter Mugridge]

Reading
18/01
0903 345038 7
0922 345005
5N04 345004
5G74/75 345003
0952 345056 7
1022 345028
1052 345012 7

Be aware 345 028 was swapped out at Paddington to Old Oak; the diagram now has 345 016 on it.

 

[JonathanH]

Be aware 345 028 was swapped out at Paddington to Old Oak; the diagram now has 345 016 on it.

That switch is scheduled - ie 345028 and 345016 are on different diagrams. 345056 will also have been switched out.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That switch is scheduled - ie 345028 and 345016 are on different diagrams. 345056 will also have been switched out.

Ah thank you; I thought the swaps took place earlier...

 

[JonathanH]

Ah thank you; I thought the swaps took place earlier...

There are four moves in the morning from Paddington to the depot of units that were at Maidenhead overnight (plus the two new peak only workings). The other two units at Maidenhead (six siding roads) overnight spend the day there after working in the morning peak and go to the depot after the evening peak.

Two leave Paddington at 0928 (5Y21) and 0958 (5Y22).

Two leave Paddington at 1058 (5Y23) and 1128 (5Y24) with fresh units for the 1113 and 1143 services to Reading. These two fresh units then work for the rest of the day.

All quite clever really.

 

[3973EXL]

1113 345042 7
1143 345016 7

 

[345 050]

Yes, and for it to be on one of the changeover diagrams this morning it would have had to be at Maidenhead overnight last night as well.

Still, at least there is now an observation that these two are in passenger service after their conversion. With 345022 also now having entered service following conversion, I guess attention turns to 345003's re-entry to service, 345009's conversion and whether 345018/019/041/067/069 are going to see passenger use in the near term.

I'm also on the hunt for 037. I cannot see any record of this unit being in passenger service in 2021. The last time I observed the unit was on test in the core in the Westbourne Carriage sidings in October 2021. Do we know by any chance if this unit has special equipment fitted for Core testing? Has anyone else seen 345 037 in passenger service in the last 12 months?

 

[hwl]

Do we know by any chance if this unit has special equipment fitted for Core testing?

It certainly did have (and may still do)

My guess at current special equipment fitted (Independent of JH's list) based old list minus units where it has been removed:
18
37
41
67
69

Recently re-delivered (may or may not still have equipment from its Old Dalby time):
019

 

[JonathanH]

I'm also on the hunt for 037. I cannot see any record of this unit being in passenger service in 2021.

The difference with 345037 is that it has carried passengers in 2019 and 2020 whereas the other five mentioned don't appear to have done so. Clearly it has been on special duties alongside 345041 for some time, and therefore not in passenger use since during 2021. It is regularly 'seen' on tunnel workings.

There are some other units which were once common on passenger work that don't appear in passenger use very often, I think 345049 is one. Others seem to switch between tunnel and passenger work quite frequently.

18

345018 was out of use at Ilford for some time and I don't think it has become one of the 'tunnel regulars' since being moved to Old Oak Depot. It was noted a few times working the 5G74-5G79 workings on the west side during December which would seem more likely to be a precursor to passenger work than special use but then again, both it and 345019 could, I guess, be held back for something specific.

 

[3973EXL]

Reading 19/01
0852 345008
0903 345012 7
0922 345014 7
5N04 345038 7
5G74/75 345003
0952 345017 7

20/01
0852 345056 7
0903 345004
0922 345011 7
5N04 345014 7
5G74/75 345003
0952 345055

21/01
0852 345016 7
0903 345005
0922 345053
5N04 345012 7
5G74/75 345033

 

[Gordonman]

I'm also on the hunt for 037. I cannot see any record of this unit being in passenger service in 2021. The last time I observed the unit was on test in the core in the Westbourne Carriage sidings in October 2021. Do we know by any chance if this unit has special equipment fitted for Core testing? Has anyone else seen 345 037 in passenger service in the last 12 months?

It was on test through the tunnel on 12/01/2022

 

[345 050]

Absolutely agree that 037 is different because it has been in service previously.

Since you bring up 345 049, from my notes I don't think I've seen this unit in service in the West. Can anyone confirm if this unit has been in service in West?

Regarding 019 (and 018 probably the same) I am going out on a limb to say that its fate would likely be similar to 045, 046 and 048, having a delayed introduction to public service, rather than being held back for testing. But this is purely speculation, don't hold me to that!

This leaves 041, 067, 069 as test units. It appears 037 has joined this group and is currently not being used for public service.

Thanks Gordonman for confirming sighting of 037 in 2022, I hadn't seen 037 since October 2021.

Thanks all.

 

[JonathanH]

Since you bring up 345 049, from my notes I don't think I've seen this unit in service in the West. Can anyone confirm if this unit has been in service in West?

Yes, it operated on the west side shortly after conversion to 9-car in March 2021 - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-345-progress.120221/page-134#post-5039953

However, it may be that it then was selected for tunnel work when this stepped up towards the end of April 2021.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Absolutely agree that 037 is different because it has been in service previously.

Since you bring up 345 049, from my notes I don't think I've seen this unit in service in the West. Can anyone confirm if this unit has been in service in West?

Regarding 019 (and 018 probably the same) I am going out on a limb to say that its fate would likely be similar to 045, 046 and 048, having a delayed introduction to public service, rather than being held back for testing. But this is purely speculation, don't hold me to that!

This leaves 041, 067, 069 as test units. It appears 037 has joined this group and is currently not being used for public service.

Thanks Gordonman for confirming sighting of 037 in 2022, I hadn't seen 037 since October 2021.

Thanks all.

I'm fairly certain that I saw 345 037 on the east side on Tuesday this week non-stopping at Stratford, which would seem to confirm that yes, it is running on tunnel tests at the moment.

 

[43096]

Yes, it operated on the west side shortly after conversion to 9-car in March 2021 - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-345-progress.120221/page-134#post-5039953

However, it may be that it then was selected for tunnel work when this stepped up towards the end of April 2021.

I had 345049 on 31/12/2021 on 9R48 1043 Paddington - Reading, so it has been active, even if not very often.

 

[73128]

Since you bring up 345 049, from my notes I don't think I've seen this unit in service in the West. Can anyone confirm if this unit has been in service in West?

yes it has. I travelled on it out of Paddington in November 2019.

 

[JonathanH]

yes it has. I travelled on it out of Paddington in November 2019.

Yes, but that was when it was a 7-car. The point trying to be made is that it has been fairly rare (but not unknown) on passenger work since April 2021 (and common on tunnel work).

 

[InOban]

Won't all the 9-car sets have to be rotated through the tunnel testing to check that the latest software update has been configured correctly?

 

[matt_world2004]

Can't understand why the 7 cars are not used on the Hayes terminators instead. The Hayes terminators are more lightly loaded and stopnat stations which can't take 9 cars (Like Hanwell and Hayes)

 

[sharpinf]

Can't understand why the 7 cars are not used on the Hayes terminators instead. The Hayes terminators are more lightly loaded and stopnat stations which can't take 9 cars (Like Hanwell and Hayes)

One issue is that in the current timetable one of the Hayes terminators comes out of the depot and forms the 0442 Heathrow service before forming the xx02 Hayes trains once back at Paddington so that one needs to be 9 car.

 

[JonathanH]

Won't all the 9-car sets have to be rotated through the tunnel testing to check that the latest software update has been configured correctly?

Yes, but they don't necessarily need to be rotated through passenger workings if they are set up with specialist monitoring equipment. In practice, as we have seen, dedicated tunnel units 345032 and 345050 have recently been on passenger work). It is quite common for a unit to rotated frequently between tunnel and passenger workings on successive days.

 

[Bigbru]

One issue is that in the current timetable one of the Hayes terminators comes out of the depot and forms the 0442 Heathrow service before forming the xx02 Hayes trains once back at Paddington so that one needs to be 9 car.

Also the semi fast Reading services use platform 14 at Paddington, which won't accommodate a 9 car so using the 7 cars are a natural fit.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Can't understand why the 7 cars are not used on the Hayes terminators instead. The Hayes terminators are more lightly loaded and stop at stations which can't take 9 cars (Like Hanwell and Hayes)

Hayes can take the full 9 cars in both the bay and the through platforms; it's only Hanwell which is shorter.

 

[JonathanH]

Helpfully, the people at Plumstead have put tonight's units in the signal berths - seemingly 345037, 345047, 345043, 345029, 345067 and 345069 stabling there tonight. If just Maidenhead, Gidea Park and Shenfield did the same it would be really useful.

[Screenshot from Signalmaps shows the occupants of the sidings at Plumstead with reporting codes 5S37, 5S47, 5S43, 5S29, 5S67 and 5S69 which almost certainly correspond to 345s with the same numbers.]

 

[345 050]

008, 010, 021, 027, 029, 031, 032, 034, 035, 037, 040, 041, 043, 047, 050, 051, 063, 067 and 069 all observed on tests today PDX-CTH/GDP.

Also traveled on 345 007 which was in service as 9-car in East today (Sunday 23 Jan.

Noticed that 069 had screen fitted so not suitable for public services.

 

[Horizon22]

One issue is that in the current timetable one of the Hayes terminators comes out of the depot and forms the 0442 Heathrow service before forming the xx02 Hayes trains once back at Paddington so that one needs to be 9 car.

This is indeed the primary issue - the first Hayes service (0532) is formed of the first Down Heathrow and return.

It would be good if the schedule could be juggled in terms of the ECS moves from Old Oak because as the poster above says, the Hayes are by far the least loaded, whilst the Reading services by far the highest. At least one of the Hayes diagrams could be a 7-car, with perhaps the other one swapped out later on.

 

[JonathanH]

This is indeed the primary issue - the first Hayes service (0532) is formed of the first Down Heathrow and return.

It would be good if the schedule could be juggled in terms of the ECS moves from Old Oak because as the poster above says, the Hayes are by far the least loaded, whilst the Reading services by far the highest. At least one of the Hayes diagrams could be a 7-car, with perhaps the other one swapped out later on.

The other point is that there are still 11 7-car 345s so at this stage they can't just be used on Hayes services, they have to do a fair number of Reading diagrams, not just the peak ones. It is a reasonably short term issue as well so perhaps not worth changing that diagram.

I assume 345003 and 345018 aren't too far off service. Both seem to have run empty to Reading today. Indeed, 345003 appears to have run Old Oak Depot to Gidea Park / Gidea Park to Reading / Reading to Paddington / Paddington to Reading / Reading to Old Oak Depot on VSTP schedules. 345018 was just on the west side with two trips west from Royal Oak Sidings / Hayes Loop.

 

[hwl]

This is indeed the primary issue - the first Hayes service (0532) is formed of the first Down Heathrow and return.

It would be good if the schedule could be juggled in terms of the ECS moves from Old Oak because as the poster above says, the Hayes are by far the least loaded, whilst the Reading services by far the highest. At least one of the Hayes diagrams could be a 7-car, with perhaps the other one swapped out later on.

But the Hayes services will become additional Heathrow services so 7car Hayes makes that a more complex change as the 7car would have to be swapped back to Reading at that point
The problems is the Reading services at particular times using P14 which requires 7car. Hayes services using 7car at other times in other platforms doesn't solve that.
With more 7 to 9 car conversion more Reading services will be 9car again.

 

[kevin_roche]

How long does it take to convert a set from 7-car to 9-car?

 

[3973EXL]

Reading
24/01
5G74/75 345018
0952 345011 7
1022 345042 7
1222 345028
1252 345033

25/01
0852 345028
0903 345015 7
0922 345006
5N04 345033
5G74/75 345018
0952 345064 7

26/01
0852 345038 7
0903 345056 7
0922 345064 7
5N04 345042 7
5G74/75 345049
0952 345028

27/01
0852 345021
0903 345014 7
0922 345004
5N04 345006
5G74/75 345018
0952 345064 7
1022 345015 7
1052 345011 7
1222 345052
1252 345035

28/01
5G74/75 Caped
5G76-79 345018

 

[Horizon22]

But the Hayes services will become additional Heathrow services so 7car Hayes makes that a more complex change as the 7car would have to be swapped back to Reading at that point
The problems is the Reading services at particular times using P14 which requires 7car. Hayes services using 7car at other times in other platforms doesn't solve that.
With more 7 to 9 car conversion more Reading services will be 9car again.

They’re diagrammed to work Hayes services all the day I believe with the same two units booked to stay there. The peak extra trains into P14 are I believe peak only diagrams that come from Old Oak Common and back again. Hayes & Heathrow stay at 2tph in the peak - it’s only Reading that goes up. I know a few sets rotate in the day, but normally they are Reading diagrams.

The issue would presumably be giving mileage to the 7 cars - both the first Up Heathrow makes the first Down Hayes service (which would need to be 9) & more diagrams available for Reading trains. Ultimately though if this is all temporary for just the short/medium-term it’s not too bad but those Reading trains can get rather busy.