Class 345 progress

[Gordonman]

5Q73 is 345056 13/12/21

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2021 ==


No surprise there then, any idea what service it was on?

No sorry,I did not record the workings but was a regular visitor to Liverpool Street throughout the day

 

[JonathanH]

No surprise there then, any idea what service it was on?

Tiger shows a 7-car due to work the 1740 from Liverpool Street.

https://tiger.worldline.global/LIVST/staff;scrollbar=true

[Picture shows the 1740 services from Liverpool Street to Shenfield to be formed of 7-coaches.]

 

[3973EXL]

5Q74 on the way to Old Oak
Realtime Trains - 561H 1904 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot

 

[JonathanH]

5Q74 on the way to Old Oak
Realtime Trains - 561H 1904 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot

Is this one 345042 (with presumably 345013 working until later this evening)?

Tiger indicates that 345013 will work 2W80 2104 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield. Tracing that forward in RTT, it appears to end on 2W08 2254 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield then runs to empty to Ilford.

A pair of 315s appears to be working 2W62 1957 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield.

 

[Gulf1159]

5Q74 on the way to Old Oak
Realtime Trains - 561H 1904 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot

345042 currently sitting in the Hanwell loop waiting path to Old Oak Depot

Is this one 345042 (with presumably 345013 working until later this evening)?

Tiger indicates that 345013 will work 2W80 2104 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield. Tracing that forward in RTT, it appears to end on 2W08 2254 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield then runs to empty to Ilford.

A pair of 315s appears to be working 2W62 1957 London Liverpool Street to Shenfield.

Thanks Jonathan, The off topic 315’s finish at Ilford depot

 

[JonathanH]

Tiger shows a 7-car unit working 2W67 0811 Shenfield to London Liverpool Street so 345013 lives on into this morning's peak, subsequently going empty to Gidea Park on 5C96 0903 London Liverpool Street to Gidea Park C.H.S. for further work this afternoon.

[Picture shows the 0846 service from Stratford to Liverpool Street to be formed of 7-coaches.]

No sign of any move scheduled for it to return to Old Oak Depot so expect it will be out until that is arranged.

 

[Roger B]

Does anyone have an up to date list of the units working east side please? Many thanks

 

[JonathanH]

Does anyone have an up to date list of the units working east side please? Many thanks

There isn't a fixed group The whole 9-car fleet, other than the handful which are dedicated to tunnel work or on test, will cycle through west and east side operation running through the tunnel to switch.

 

[Roger B]

There isn't a fixed group The whole 9-car fleet, other than the handful which are dedicated to tunnel work or on test, will cycle through west and east side operation running through the tunnel to switch.

Thanks Jonathan. I was thinking more of which ones are working east side currently - recognising that it's a single fleet, and units are switched between west, tunnel test and east side workings. I was thinking of popping along to Stratford or Bethnal Green on Monday/Tuesday and/or Ealing Broadway, and knowing which units are likely to be working east will help me to finalise where I go.

 

[3973EXL]

14/12 Reading

5G74/75 345022
5N04 345012 7
Pad 345011 7 345025/039/047/001/017 7
5G50/51 345067
5G56/57 345056 7

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks Jonathan. I was thinking more of which ones are working east side currently - recognising that it's a single fleet, and units are switched between west, tunnel test and east side workings. I was thinking of popping along to Stratford or Bethnal Green on Monday/Tuesday and/or Ealing Broadway, and knowing which units are likely to be working east will help me to finalise where I go.

The West side services are watered down with quite a few 7-car 345s. Should be none East side (except for the errant 013 !).

14/12 Reading

5G74/75 345022
5N04 345012 7
Pad 345011 7 345025/039/047

@3973EXL Has often been reporting at reading which shows quite a few 7-car, example above. No 7-car ever going to Heathrow BTW.

@JonathanH has been reporting/keeping-track on what is getting converted to 9-car.

Reports of moves across London will be drying up (a little ?) because a locomotive and drag via the North London Line is no longer required. The 9-car 345s just slip quietly across using that shiny new Cross-Rail tunnel.

So my method, assuming no information on the day, would be morning peak at Bethnal Green or West side then evening peak at the opposite end. West side I wonder - Ideally near the tunnel portal to get the tunnel test runs. If I had to choose one place it might now be Bethnal Green as there are (nearly) no pesky 7-car runts to ignore and waste 9-car opportunities !.

 

[Roger B]

The West side services are watered down with quite a few 7-car 345s. Should be none East side (except for the errant 013 !).

@3973EXL Has often been reporting at reading which shows quite a few 7-car, example above. No 7-car ever going to Heathrow BTW.

@JonathanH has been reporting/keeping-track on what is getting converted to 9-car.

Reports of moves across London will be drying up (a little ?) because a locomotive and drag via the North London Line is no longer required. The 9-car 345s just slip quietly across using that shiny new Cross-Rail tunnel.

So my method, assuming no information on the day, would be morning peak at Bethnal Green or West side then evening peak at the opposite end. West side I wonder - Ideally near the tunnel portal to get the tunnel test runs. If I had to choose one place it might now be Bethnal Green as there are (nearly) no pesky 7-car runts to ignore and waste 9-car opportunities !.

Thanks Peter. Great plan - but getting to Bethnal Green from Manchester for the morning leak is pretty challenging - notwithstanding the price of peak fares. But a list of what's currently working east side would be really handy - accepting that there may be one or two swaps between now and then.

 

[JonathanH]

No 7-car ever going to Heathrow BTW.

As is well versed, 7-car units can't go to Heathrow.

But a list of what's currently working east side would be really handy - accepting that there may be one or two swaps between now and then.

There are multiple stock transfers daily between Old Oak Depot and the east side operation (around four or five each way each day) so it isn't really a case of one or two swaps.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...21-12-14/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
5C80 1155 Paddington Crossrail to Gidea Park C.H.S. (Stratford 1214)
5C66 1215 Paddington Crossrail to Chadwell Heath Turnback (Stratford 1237)
5C82 1225 Paddington Crossrail to Gidea Park C.H.S. (Stratford 1244)
5C86 1325 Paddington Crossrail to Chadwell Heath Turnback (Stratford 1344)
5C90 2227 Paddington Crossrail to Chadwell Heath Turnback (Stratford 2247)

The units run under a different headcode from Old Oak Depot to Paddington.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...21-12-14/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
5Y52 1032 Chadwell Heath Turnback to Old Oak Depot (Stratford 1049)
5Y54 1134 Shenfield Stabling Sidings to Old Oak Depot (Stratford 1210)
5Y69 1422 Chadwell Heath Turnback to Old Oak Depot (Stratford 1440)
5Y56 1919 Shenfield Stabling Sidings to Old Oak Depot (Stratford 1955)
5Y58 2021 Shenfield Stabling Sidings to Old Oak Depot (Stratford 2055)

5L66 / 5C66 / 5V67 / 5C68 / 5Y69 looks like it may be an out and back test working from Old Oak Depot, like the 5Gxx west side workings, rather than a stock transfer? Not running today in any case.
5L66 1203 Old Oak Depot to Paddington Crossrail
5C66 1215 Paddington Crossrail to Chadwell Heath Turnback
5V67 1307 Chadwell Heath Turnback to Ilford E.M.U.D.
5C68 1400 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Chadwell Heath Turnback
5Y69 1422 Chadwell Heath Turnback to Old Oak Depot

Clearly the balance of probabilities is that the east side is better because there are more 9-car units operating on the east side than the west side on any given day now, but there seems to be a reasonable amount of mixing tunnel and passenger operation for the passenger units. However, there are equally reasons to be west side for the test workings and Tunnel portal.

 

[Roger B]

As is well versed, 7-car units can't go to Heathrow.


There are multiple stock transfers daily between Old Oak Depot and the east side operation (around four or five each way each day) so it isn't really a case of one or two swaps.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...21-12-14/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
5C80 1155 Paddington Crossrail to Gidea Park C.H.S. (Stratford 1214)
5C66 1215 Paddington Crossrail to Chadwell Heath Turnback (Stratford 1237)
5C82 1225 Paddington Crossrail to Gidea Park C.H.S. (Stratford 1244)
5C86 1325 Paddington Crossrail to Chadwell Heath Turnback (Stratford 1344)
5C90 2227 Paddington Crossrail to Chadwell Heath Turnback (Stratford 2247)

The units run under a different headcode from Old Oak Depot to Paddington.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...21-12-14/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
5Y52 1032 Chadwell Heath Turnback to Old Oak Depot (Stratford 1049)
5Y54 1134 Shenfield Stabling Sidings to Old Oak Depot (Stratford 1210)
5Y69 1422 Chadwell Heath Turnback to Old Oak Depot (Stratford 1440)
5Y56 1919 Shenfield Stabling Sidings to Old Oak Depot (Stratford 1955)
5Y58 2021 Shenfield Stabling Sidings to Old Oak Depot (Stratford 2055)

5L66 / 5C66 / 5V67 / 5C68 / 5Y69 looks like it may be an out and back test working from Old Oak Depot, like the 5Gxx west side workings, rather than a stock transfer? Not running today in any case.
5L66 1203 Old Oak Depot to Paddington Crossrail
5C66 1215 Paddington Crossrail to Chadwell Heath Turnback
5V67 1307 Chadwell Heath Turnback to Ilford E.M.U.D.
5C68 1400 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Chadwell Heath Turnback
5Y69 1422 Chadwell Heath Turnback to Old Oak Depot

Clearly the balance of probabilities is that the east side is better because there are more 9-car units operating on the east side than the west side on any given day now, but there seems to be a reasonable amount of mixing tunnel and passenger operation for the passenger units. However, there are equally reasons to be west side for the test workings and Tunnel portal.

Thanks Jonathan - really appreciate the detail you've provided. I hadn't realised the volume of transfers each day.
I'll just take pot luck when I get there - I daresay I'll get another opportunity in the new year.

 

[Gulf1159]

There are 23 unit diagrams on the east side Monday to Friday. This includes the unit change over diagrams (east to west and return) and test/training diagrams on the east

caveat:- some diagrams only operate during peak times also possible 315 substitutes and the errant 345013!! The latter two won’t be around much longer

units required for Services Monday- Friday

23 units east side
18 units in the COS
21 units west side ( 2 are 7 cars)

62 units in total out of 70

 

[JonathanH]

Thanks for confirming.

21 units west side ( 2 are 7 cars)

3 Heathrow, 2 Hayes, 9 Reading plus the two Reading extras so presumably this additionally includes the 5G70-5G73 hot spare working and the 5G50-5G53 / 5G56-5G59 / 5G74-5G79 / 5L66-5Y69 daytime test cycles.

62 units in total out of 70

62 from 70 where of that 70, 345019 isn't available, a unit or two is under conversion to 9-car at any one time taking it down to 67.

With 13 7-cars still it explains why they have taken over so many Reading services as a short term measure.

Seems quite tight really - presumably why the 315s are still available for limited cover.

 

[3973EXL]

37510 off the Mon drags en route back to Derby.

Realtime Trains - 059V 1221 Old Oak Depot to Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail)

 

[Gulf1159]

Thanks for confirming.


3 Heathrow, 2 Hayes, 9 Reading plus the two Reading extras so presumably this additionally includes the 5G70-5G73 hot spare working and the 5G50-5G53 / 5G56-5G59 / 5G74-5G79 / 5L66-5Y69 daytime test cycles.


62 from 70 where of that 70, 345019 isn't available, a unit or two is under conversion to 9-car at any one time taking it down to 67.

With 13 7-cars still it explains why they have taken over so many Reading services as a short term measure.

Seems quite tight really - presumably why the 315s are still available for limited cover.

There are 6 on the Heathrow and Hayes 11 on the readings ( plus the 2 extras 7 cars) 1 test cycle and 1 hot spare. Two units that were on the readings that end early at Old Oak then go onto the test cycle

diagram numbers

101-106 Heathrow/Hayes
107-117 Readings
118 hot spare
401 test cycle
501-502 2 extra (7 cars)

 

[3973EXL]

Reading 15/12

1052 345038 7
1122 345012 7
5G50/51 345067
1152 345014 7
5G56/57 345047
1222 345058

16/12

0903 345042 7
0922 345064 7
5N04 345055
5G74/75 345018
0952 345014 7
1022 345011 7
1052 345009 7
1122 345042 7
5G50/51 345067

STP 17/12
Realtime Trains - FRGT 1115 Old Dalby to Old Oak Depot now Caped

VSTP 17/12
Realtime Trains - 0L50 1000 Wembley H.S. to Ilford E.M.U.D.
Realtime Trains - 5Q73 1310 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot

 

[Gulf1159]

Looks like a VSTP path is in place for 345013 to finally move from east to west

Realtime Trains - 068D 1000 Wembley H.S. to Ilford E.M.U.D.

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 501K 1310 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[3973EXL]

Reading 17/12

0922 345014 7
5N04 345011 7
5G74/75 345022
5G50/51 345067
5G56/57 345007

 

[345 050]

Looks like it ran, can anyone confirm if 013 is at Old Oak?

 

[sharpinf]

Looks like it ran, can anyone confirm if 013 is at Old Oak?

It was definitely hauling 013 saw it go past me, 37611 was the loco

 

[345 050]

Thanks for confirming.

That's all the 7 cars over to the West then. I wonder how many will remain as 7 car units, they surely don't need more than 4 do they?

 

[JonathanH]

That's all the 7 cars over to the West then. I wonder how many will remain as 7 car units, they surely don't need more than 4 do they?

It seems to take about 2 weeks to do each extension so it is going to take a while in any case.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks for confirming.

That's all the 7 cars over to the West then. I wonder how many will remain as 7 car units, they surely don't need more than 4 do they?

My understanding is that eventually all the 345s will be 9-car. The pairs of extra coaches already exist and it was only a temporary requirement that meant 7-car had to be used East side. However there is a short platform at Paddington that is now getting used by 345s until the tunnel absorbs the services.

It seems to take about 2 weeks to do each extension so it is going to take a while in any case.

I wonder, is it the case that it is the software update (7-car to 9-car) and subsequent testing of affected equipment (signalling) that takes most of that time ?.

 

[kevin_roche]

My understanding is that eventually all the 345s will be 9-car. The pairs of extra coaches already exist and it was only a temporary requirement that meant 7-car had to be used East side. However there is a short platform at Paddington that is now getting used by 345s until the tunnel absorbs the services.

If that is the case we should not expect all of them to be upgraded until September 2022 at the earliest.

 

[43096]

If that is the case we should not expect all of them to be upgraded until September 2022 at the earliest.

It's been stated in Modern Railways that four units will be retained as 7-car to resource these peak diagrams to Reading; all the others will be lengthened. No indication which sets will be retained, but it would be sensible to make it four consecutively numbered sets to make it easier for control staff to remember them - 345011-014 would be logical, so it won't be them!

 

[33021]

Your right it won’t be those, it will be four that have previously been 9 cars

 

[Peter Sarf]

Your right it won’t be those, it will be four that have previously been 9 cars

Now that would make sense as I imagine they will want to dispense with the older (7-car) version of the software asap. But it depends how much of a new version of the 9-car software will be required to cater for two missing cars !.