Class 345 progress

[supervc-10]

It really does seem optimistic. Perhaps there is a degree of wanting to test the 387s on a more intense schedule to T5, and taking the opportunity of lower passenger numbers so it doesn't mess things up so much?

 

[kevin_roche]

It really does seem optimistic. Perhaps there is a degree of wanting to test the 387s on a more intense schedule to T5, and taking the opportunity of lower passenger numbers so it doesn't mess things up so much?

How will Crossrail eventually run 6 trains per hour to Heathrow as well as the HEX if they can't cope with 4 now?

I thought that ETCS was supposed to allow 40% extra according to the European Agency For Railways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Agency_for_Railways

 

[matt_world2004]

How will Crossrail eventually run 6 trains per hour to Heathrow as well as the HEX if they can't cope with 4 now?

I thought that ETCS was supposed to allow 40% extra according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Agency_for_Railways

It's not the tunnel capacity at Heathrow that's the problem . But the long dwell time at Heathrow airport for the Heathrow express trains. For six trains per hour it is going to require a new timetable shortening the dwell time.

 

[JN114]

It's not the tunnel capacity at Heathrow that's the problem . But the long dwell time at Heathrow airport for the Heathrow express trains. For six trains per hour it is going to require a new timetable shortening the dwell time.

It will require HEx to go back to their old, pre- Dec 2019 timetable, which only uses 1 platform at T5.

That is planned to happen once Crossrail start running into the Sewer.

 

[kevin_roche]

It's not the tunnel capacity at Heathrow that's the problem . But the long dwell time at Heathrow airport for the Heathrow express trains. For six trains per hour it is going to require a new timetable shortening the dwell time.

Ahh! Of course, the platform arrangements at Paddington are an issue. Once the Crossrail trains are no longer taking up the high-level platforms, HEX can have them back and the longer dwell will happen at Paddington.

 

[Horizon22]

How will Crossrail eventually run 6 trains per hour to Heathrow as well as the HEX if they can't cope with 4 now?

I thought that ETCS was supposed to allow 40% extra according to the European Agency For Railways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Agency_for_Railways

Still some interweaving with GWRs 387s to Hayes & Harlington not fitted with operational ETCS.

And the dwells are highly imbalanced at the moment. HeX are supposed to only use P7 at Paddington because TfL are still primarily using 11-12 which necessitates a 7 min turnaround whilst its about 20' over at T5 due to the uptick in intensity of GWR services. Will be some breathing room when Crossrail goes underground.

 

[rebmcr]

Will be some breathing room when Crossrail goes underground.

Does anyone know whether it would be operationally feasible to terminate services at Paddington Low Level from the west, in advance of the core opening? Using Carto Metro for reference, it looks like there would have to be bidirectional working between there and Subway Junction?

 

[JN114]

Does anyone know whether it would be operationally feasible to terminate services at Paddington Low Level from the west, in advance of the core opening? Using Carto Metro for reference, it looks like there would have to be bidirectional working between there and Subway Junction?

It would be technically possible, once the central section opens for passenger traffic, but It definitely wouldn’t be operationally practical. It would virtually preclude any kind of service running on the central section other than these eastbound Crossrail terminators - and if you’re running onto the central section, you might as well go to Abbey Wood or somewhere designed for terminating eastbound services.

 

[Horizon22]

Does anyone know whether it would be operationally feasible to terminate services at Paddington Low Level from the west, in advance of the core opening? Using Carto Metro for reference, it looks like there would have to be bidirectional working between there and Subway Junction?

You could, but you'd probably have to start the return working from Paddington too as well. That would mean berthing in a Paddington platform for maybe around 90 mins which becomes rather impractical. Will be interesting what sort of service contingencies MTR / TfL have got in mind for late running into the central section especially for an Abbey Wood service where there isn't much skip-stop potential.

 

[JonathanH]

TfL Rail services have been set up as separate London Paddington to Heathrow Central and Heathrow Central to Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 services from today, presumably because there was a chance that they might have terminated at Heathrow Central and run empty to Terminal 4, had the Heathrow Express gone back up to 4tph.

The headcodes of the separate services are 9Txx from Paddington to Heathrow Central and 2Txx onwards (2Pxx / 9Pxx in the other direction) but the same 345 runs through.

 

[itfcfan]

Paddington - Hayes & Harlington services are showing as 7 cars on Tiger today (have been 9 cars for the past few weeks/months):

https://tiger.worldline.global/WEALING/ciss

It looks like 9 car 345s are being used on the Paddington - Reading services (and presumably the Heathrow services too, although the car indicator is blank on Tiger for these today).

 

[JonathanH]

Paddington - Hayes & Harlington services are showing as 7 cars on Tiger today (have been 9 cars for the past few weeks/months):

https://tiger.worldline.global/WEALING/ciss

It looks like 9 car 345s are being used on the Paddington - Reading services (and presumably the Heathrow services too, although the car indicator is blank on Tiger for these today).

Yes, all of the Reading services were 9-cars today (as were 5G70/5G71 (the Maidenhead spare) and 5G74-5G79 (the morning test run described a few weeks ago)) although not the 5G50-5G53 runs which was 345013. There is also a series of test runs to Heathrow today.

A bit surprised that they can't muster 14 serviceable 9-car units from a fleet of 18 but perhaps they want to keep the 7-car units operational.

I reckon they have 12 units in passenger service and 3 on empty trips - eg 15 in use. 345055 and 345068 were both taken out of service yesterday after failures.

 

[Snow1964]

It would be technically possible, once the central section opens for passenger traffic, but It definitely wouldn’t be operationally practical. It would virtually preclude any kind of service running on the central section other than these eastbound Crossrail terminators - and if you’re running onto the central section, you might as well go to Abbey Wood or somewhere designed for terminating eastbound services.

It may be possible before central section opens as the main testing could probably be done without using the Bond Street-Paddington section (more than enough room to do testing on remainder of unopened section)

However to reach Paddington (crossrail) in service from the west, need the testing completed on the signalling transition from the west. Realistically would only be of any use if central section wasn’t ready and there was say an Abbey wood - Liverpool Street shuttle other end. Otherwise might as well just open it throughout to Abbey Wood in one go.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

With 9-car units now operating to Hayes, two 7-car units (345006 and 345007) have been dragged to Ilford over the last two days to bolster the east side fleet.

18 7-car units at Ilford now 345003/05/06/07/08/09/10/11/12/14/15/16/17/22/38/39/42/56, and
12 7-car units at Old Oak Depot 345013/20/29/40/44/47/49/51/52/57/63/64

This facilitates the change in east-side operations such that the remaining 315s are diagrammed to work peak only from next week.

As noted above, the 9-car fleet at Old Oak Depot available for passenger services appears to be limited for the time being to 345021/23/28/30/60/65/68/70 for five diagrams. Reading services require 9 7-car units and the spare to run 5G70/5G71/5G72/5G73 - ie a hot spare at Maidenhead in the morning peak and Ladbroke Grove in the evening peak - ie 12 units for 10 diagrams.

345023 reported in service today on Heathrow services for the first time, taking the number which have carried passengers to 52 of the 70 units - just 345001/02/18/19/24/25/26/31/32/33/36/41/45/46/48/50/67/69 to go by my reckoning.

I think that would simply have been a mistake - 345052 was on the east side during May - it moved from Ilford to Old Oak Depot in the middle of June and has been operating west side services as a 7-car unit ever since.

There have only been six units converted from 7-car to 9-car and four of those were converted back - 345055 and 345059 were converted back to 9-cars during May and have been used in service as such since then. 345047 and 345057 appear to have been in the conversion process when the withdrawal of 9-car operation to Reading happened in June and reappeared as 7-cars (along with 345063 and 345064 which had to be converted back from 9-car units).


There are two groups of these - 24 units have now carried passengers as 9-car units (including 345023/63/64):
345021/27/28/37/53/54/58/60 were in the group of units which appear not to have operated in passenger service after the withdrawal of 9-car operation to Reading in June.
345004/30/34/35/43/55/59/61/62/65/66/68/70 were in the group of units which operated Hayes and Heathrow services from late July to mid-September and Heathrow services since then.

The units with the new software now in use appear to be 345021/28/60 from the first group and 345030/43/65/68/70 from the second group together with 345023 which appears to have been the test unit for this upgrade. A fleet of nine units appears to be sufficient for five diagrams.

There aren't many observations posted of the units involved in Tunnel workings - it was 345024/25/31/32/33/36/41/50/67/69 but with the ramping up of testing, it would appear that more units are likely to be needed.

It would seem reasonable that the remainder of the fleet not being used for Tunnel testing or passenger service are simply parked at Old Oak Depot spare. I assume that as more units are upgraded to the next software type, there will be a return to operation for them.

EDIT: 345043 added to the list of 345s back in service today.

Is there any update on the fleet status?

 

[Mollman]

New photo and general update from multiple hs2 sites including OOC on this blog. Looking very clear and flat.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/12/30/fresh-photos-from-hs2s-london-construction-sites/

What's the 2 car train on the left of the OOC picture?

The door layout and livery suggests it's a couple of Class 345 intermediates.

I'd agree - do they reduce the 9s to 7s at OOC?

 

[kevin_roche]

The latest monthly report by Mark Wild to the London Assembly Transport Committee is now available on the TfL website.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/alison-moore-montly-update-18-december-2020.pdf

It contains much that we already know. Two items that I found interesting confirmation are on page 3 under the heading of Operational Readiness.

Following a software update, nine car trains (Full Length Units) have been re-introduced on services between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington. This has allowed an increase in service to Hanwell which is now receiving four trains per hour.

There are TfL Traffic Managers working in the Route Control Centresignalling trains - a first for this project.

 

[JonathanH]

Is there any update on the fleet status?

I'm only an interested observer keeping an eye on these units using publicly available sources, but the main update is that the fleet of 9-car units working Reading / Heathrow / Hayes services appears to currently be 18 units, by observation: 345004/21/23/28/30/34/35/43/55/58/59/60/61/62/65/66/68/70

No other changes as far as I can make out.

 

[Yindee8191]

I'd agree - do they reduce the 9s to 7s at OOC?

I don’t think they’re removing any coaches at the moment, all the sets they’ve used as 7-cars are out there now. In fact, they’re possibly now lengthening the 7-cars back to 9 cars in preparation for full trial running, which might explain what those two are doing there.

 

[trivran]

TfL Rail trains on the former Heathrow Connect I have used in recent days have been 9 cars.

 

[itfcfan]

Yes, all of the Reading services were 9-cars today (as were 5G70/5G71 (the Maidenhead spare) and 5G74-5G79 (the morning test run described a few weeks ago)) although not the 5G50-5G53 runs which was 345013. There is also a series of test runs to Heathrow today.

A bit surprised that they can't muster 14 serviceable 9-car units from a fleet of 18 but perhaps they want to keep the 7-car units operational.

I reckon they have 12 units in passenger service and 3 on empty trips - eg 15 in use. 345055 and 345068 were both taken out of service yesterday after failures.

Tiger shows Paddington - Hayes & Harlington services back as 9 car 345s today:

https://tiger.worldline.global/WEALING/ciss

 

[Gulf1159]

I see there are two STP’S in for unit swaps between OOC and Ilford on Thursday 7 Jan

Realtime Trains - 513A 0959 Old Oak Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 533A 1503 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Peter Mugridge]

345 039 is moving from Ilford to Old Oak Common today; 37 601 is dragging it.

 

[Gulf1159]

345 039 is moving from Ilford to Old Oak Common today; 37 601 is dragging it.

345013 old oak to Ilford
345039 Ilford to Old oak

 

[iphone76]

345 039 is moving from Ilford to Old Oak Common today; 37 601 is dragging it.

And 345 013 made the move from Old Oak to Ilford earlier.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2021 ==

345013 old oak to Ilford
345039 Ilford to Old oak

Great minds! Lol

 

[47444]

345 039 is moving from Ilford to Old Oak Common today; 37 601 is dragging it.

is 345039 still a seven car unit or has it been lengthened?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

is 345039 still a seven car unit or has it been lengthened?

Sorry, no idea.

 

[JonathanH]

is 345039 still a seven car unit or has it been lengthened?

It is still a 7-car. 9-car units can't operate on the east side yet and it was working there until it moved.

No observations of any 7-car units being lengthened yet. Indeed, a number of them have been out on empty trips as 7-cars. Both 345052 and 345064 observed as 7-cars on the Railcam at Slough today working 5G74 0823 Old Oak Depot to Reading and 5G50 1013 Old Oak Depot to Reading.

 

[47444]

It is still a 7-car. 9-car units can't operate on the east side yet and it was working there until it moved.

Thank you

 

[20atthemagnet]

Slightly off topic perhaps unless it’s relevant to 345s but new Balise beacons have appeared on the west side of Liverpool Street since work started on lengthening the platforms on platform 17 and 18. Anybody know what their purpose is? We already have CSDE beacons on all the platforms. They are identical to the square yellow ones you see littered around stratford for ATO. As usual NR have said nothing... drivers are questioning and nobody seems to know..

 

[rebmcr]

Slightly off topic perhaps unless it’s relevant to 345s but new Balise beacons have appeared on the west side of Liverpool Street since work started on lengthening the platforms on platform 17 and 18. Anybody know what their purpose is? We already have CSDE beacons on all the platforms. They are identical to the square yellow ones you see littered around stratford for ATO. As usual NR have said nothing... drivers are questioning and nobody seems to know..

I know there are additional balise along platforms in the core for accurate stopping, but that's CBTC and Liverpool Street isn't...

Perhaps Pway looked at the specs for Liverpool Street Low Level and accidentally applied them up top?