Class 345 progress

[rebmcr]

ETCS 3 is degraded ops at OOC, ETCS 4 is practical (3 day course plus assessment).

3 and 4 are training course modules?

 

[JN114]

3 and 4 are training course modules?

Yes, although I can see the confusion with the different “Levels/Modes” of ETCS operation

 

[Snow1964]

Taken from page 78 of TfL Programmes and Investment Committee papers : The 7car 345s to Shenfield will be replaced by 9car at start of stage 4a in H1 2021-2022 (April - September 2021)

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20201211-agenda-and-papers-public.pdf

Various other Elizabeth line station info with dates on pages 75-79

 

[kevin_roche]

I think I missed something. When did stage 4 get split into 4a and 4b and what is the difference between these two steps?

 

[Snow1964]

I think I missed something. When did stage 4 get split into 4a and 4b and what is the difference between these two steps?

I was also intrigued by reference to 4a, especially as stage 4 was just adding the short Whitechapel-Stratford section (with through running from Paddington (Elizabeth line) to Shenfield)

 

[Gulf1159]

Taken from page 78 of TfL Programmes and Investment Committee papers : The 7car 345s to Shenfield will be replaced by 9car at start of stage 4a in H1 2021-2022 (April - September 2021)

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20201211-agenda-and-papers-public.pdf

Various other Elizabeth line station info with dates on pages 75-79

Platform work at Liverpool Street is due to commence later this month and be commissioned the first week in April. The FLU’s are due to be introduced from 15 May 2021 timetable change. Well that’s the plan!!!

 

[swt_passenger]

I was also intrigued by reference to 4a, especially as stage 4 was just adding the short Whitechapel-Stratford section (with through running from Paddington (Elizabeth line) to Shenfield)

Is it because they’ve changed the order of 9 car to Liverpool St? What I’m thinking is that originally, 9 car from Shenfield to the core happened first, and then after a gap, (while platforms were extended), 9 car would return to Liverpool St. But that’s happening the other way round now?

 

[matt_world2004]

Is it because they’ve changed the order of 9 car to Liverpool St? What I’m thinking is that originally, 9 car from Shenfield to the core happened first, and then after a gap, (while platforms were extended), 9 car would return to Liverpool St. But that’s happening the other way round now?

Original plan was core opens. 9 cars from Paddington to Abbey wood.

9 car service joins up with shenfield to whitechapel (and paddington)

7 car runs to Liverpool Street high level during peak hours only.

Increased platform capacity at Liverpool Street provides opportunity to redevelop platforms

9 car runs to Liverpool Street high level peak hours only.

 

[JonathanH]

Report elsewhere that 9-car units operated the Hayes shuttles today (Tuesday) (as well as Heathrow) for the first time since the 14 September introduction of 9-car units to Heathrow. On Monday, both Hayes services appear to have been 7-car units so it seems the new software is deemed reliable enough for five 9-car units in operation.

 

[rebmcr]

Report elsewhere that 9-car units operated the Hayes shuttles today (Tuesday) (as well as Heathrow) for the first time since the 14 September introduction of 9-car units to Heathrow. On Monday, both Hayes services appear to have been 7-car units so it seems the new software is deemed reliable enough for five 9-car units in operation.

I remain unsure why Hayes circuits were deemed too risky for 9-car, when the software problems are reported to be ETCS-related and therefore delay-prone at Airport Junction and at Heathrow (neither of which are 'seen' by units operating Hayes services).

 

[samuelmorris]

Not explicitly about 345s, but thought I'd link this here

 

[Alfie1014]

Platform work at Liverpool Street is due to commence later this month and be commissioned the first week in April. The FLU’s are due to be introduced from 15 May 2021 timetable change. Well that’s the plan!!!

Presumably until the core opens this will result in a loss of flexibility and a tightening of operation on the east side at Liverpool Street with the combination of the loss of one platform overall, the off peak ramp up of TfL rail services to 8tph and the fact that the lengthened 16 and 17 wont be long enough to fit a 10 car 720.

 

[matt_world2004]

Not explicitly about 345s, but thought I'd link this here

No slowdown when passing stations which is a surprise

 

[samuelmorris]

To me it looked like there was, certainly at some of them.

 

[rebmcr]

No slowdown when passing stations which is a surprise

I see slowdown.

 

[rd749249]

Stations are passed at max 42mph

 

[matt_world2004]

Stations are passed at max 42mph

That's relatively fast I thought they had to crawl past stations because of the pressure changes.

 

[JonathanH]

That's relatively fast I thought they had to crawl past stations because of the pressure changes.

Isn't that part of the reason for the platform doors - eg although they are a safety feature, they also have advantages for air flow and pressure

 

[samuelmorris]

Isn't that part of the reason for the platform doors - eg although they are a safety feature, they also have advantages for air flow and pressure

The tunnels are also much wider on Crossrail, and the station cavities enormous. There are no cramped, narrow platforms on Crossrail as there are on the deep tube. Considering that tube stock enters platforms at close to that speed on the faster lines (e.g. Central, Victoria) without PEDs, a line with PEDs and stations that large shouldn't really suffer from the 'piston effect'.

 

[kevin_roche]

Isn't that part of the reason for the platform doors - eg although they are a safety feature, they also have advantages for air flow and pressure

<cynicism>The main reason for the platform screen doors is to save money on ventilation fans. That's why they don't bother with platform screen doors at the open-air stations, they don't need them. Stopping people falling or jumping in front of trains is just a nice side effect. </cynicism>

The need to have the platform screen doors completed was one of the reasons they could not complete the train testing. They have to be able to skip stations while running under ATO I guess.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Any updates to the fleet?

Any West gone East/SLUs gone FLUs/New units entering service?

 

[rd749249]

During SIDT thus far, the ‘Station Skip’ feature has been used a fair bit in order to recover the service to timetable. You have to remember the lack of options the signaller / control have when a single unit fails. Though there may be crossovers at various places within the COS, using them would potentially cause disruption elsewhere. I’m of the opinion that station skip will be quite common when it goes live. It’s quite easy for passengers to just get off at another station and head back in the opposite direction given the close proximity of all the platforms.

This picture shows the indication the driver gets when the next station is to be skipped. It’s the yellow arrow below the speedometer.

 

[matt_world2004]

During SIDT thus far, the ‘Station Skip’ feature has been used a fair bit in order to recover the service to timetable. You have to remember the lack of options the signaller / control have when a single unit fails. Though there may be crossovers at various places within the COS, using them would potentially cause disruption elsewhere. I’m of the opinion that station skip will be quite common when it goes live. It’s quite easy for passengers to just get off at another station and head back in the opposite direction given the close proximity of all the platforms.

This picture shows the indication the driver gets when the next station is to be skipped. It’s the yellow arrow below the speedometer.

Can't see station skip being used too often the fines are huge . The example given in the London reconnections article are that a fine for a service calling at Tottenham court road skipping Stratford at 9:35 in the morning is £2450 rising to ~£12000 if two consecutive services skip Stratford

Purple Reign: How Crossrail Will Be Run

Building Crossrail is less than half the battle. What will really matter to passengers is how it will be run. We take a look at how it will operate.

www.londonreconnections.com

The fines are based on loss of capacity. The more popular a station the higher the fine.

The operator will be expected to juggle the timetable to avoid stop skipping during disruption and service recovery. Difficult to do currently without the full service being open.

An example of how it may be done. The Heathrow train from Paddington is cancelled this leaves Hanwell without a service for 30 minutes and Acton Mainline without a service for an hour. The reading train which normally skips these stops will be asked to serve them.

 

[hwl]

Can't see station skip being used too often the fines are huge . The example given in the London reconnections article are that a fine for a service calling at Tottenham court road skipping Stratford at 9:35 in the morning is £2450 rising to ~£12000 if two consecutive services skip Stratford

Purple Reign: How Crossrail Will Be Run

Building Crossrail is less than half the battle. What will really matter to passengers is how it will be run. We take a look at how it will operate.

www.londonreconnections.com

The fines are based on loss of capacity. The more popular a station the higher the fine.

The operator will be expected to juggle the timetable to avoid stop skipping during disruption and service recovery. Difficult to do currently without the full service being open.

An example of how it may be done. The Heathrow train from Paddington is cancelled this leaves Hanwell without a service for 30 minutes and Acton Mainline without a service for an hour. The reading train which normally skips these stops will be asked to serve them.

Agreed, there are a couple of known planned software iterations to go, at this point there is plenty of data gathering and learning to do which will result in even more software changes beyond those.

 

[itfcfan]

It's a good video. For my own interest, I recorded the station pass through times on the video:
00:00 Abbey Wood
02:15-02:26 Woolwich
05:08-05:18 Custom House
07:19-07:31 Canary Wharf
09:35-09:47 Whitechapel
11:06-11:18 Liverpool Street
12:02-12:14 Farringdon
13:48-14:00 Tottenham Court Road
14:38-14:50 Bond Street
16:20-16:30 Paddington

 

[JonathanH]

With 9-car units now operating to Hayes, two 7-car units (345006 and 345007) have been dragged to Ilford over the last two days to bolster the east side fleet.

18 7-car units at Ilford now 345003/05/06/07/08/09/10/11/12/14/15/16/17/22/38/39/42/56, and
12 7-car units at Old Oak Depot 345013/20/29/40/44/47/49/51/52/57/63/64

This facilitates the change in east-side operations such that the remaining 315s are diagrammed to work peak only from next week.

As noted above, the 9-car fleet at Old Oak Depot available for passenger services appears to be limited for the time being to 345021/23/28/30/60/65/68/70 for five diagrams. Reading services require 9 7-car units and the spare to run 5G70/5G71/5G72/5G73 - ie a hot spare at Maidenhead in the morning peak and Ladbroke Grove in the evening peak - ie 12 units for 10 diagrams.

345023 reported in service today on Heathrow services for the first time, taking the number which have carried passengers to 52 of the 70 units - just 345001/02/18/19/24/25/26/31/32/33/36/41/45/46/48/50/67/69 to go by my reckoning.

 

[Roger B]

With 9-car units now operating to Hayes, two 7-car units (345006 and 345007) have been dragged to Ilford over the last two days to bolster the east side fleet.

18 7-car units at Ilford now 345003/05/06/07/08/09/10/11/12/14/15/16/17/22/38/39/42/56, and
12 7-car units at Old Oak Depot 345013/20/29/40/44/47/51/52/57/63/64

This facilitates the change in east-side operations such that the remaining 315s are diagrammed to work peak only from next week.

As noted above, the 9-car fleet at Old Oak Depot available for passenger services appears to be limited for the time being to 345021/23/28/30/60/65/68/70 for five diagrams. Reading services require 9 7-car units and the spare to run 5G70/5G71/5G72/5G73 - ie a hot spare at Maidenhead in the morning peak and Ladbroke Grove in the evening peak - ie 12 units for 10 diagrams.

345023 reported in service today on Heathrow services for the first time, taking the number which have carried passengers to 52 of the 70 units - just 345001/02/18/19/24/25/26/31/32/33/36/41/45/46/48/50/67/69 to go by my reckoning.

Thanks Jonathan H, really helpful update. There are a few other units that have previously been reported as working out west, viz 004, 027, 053, 055, 058, 061, 062, 066. Do you (or anyone else) have any news on what these units are doing now, please? And 052 was reported as having reverted to 9-car from May - so I was surprised to see it on 9th September at Ealing Broadway as 7-car. Very helpful to see it's still 7-car in your list above.

 

[JonathanH]

And 052 was reported as having reverted to 9-car from May - so I was surprised to see it on 9th September at Ealing Broadway as 7-car.

I think that would simply have been a mistake - 345052 was on the east side during May - it moved from Ilford to Old Oak Depot in the middle of June and has been operating west side services as a 7-car unit ever since.

There have only been six units converted from 7-car to 9-car and four of those were converted back - 345055 and 345059 were converted back to 9-cars during May and have been used in service as such since then. 345047 and 345057 appear to have been in the conversion process when the withdrawal of 9-car operation to Reading happened in June and reappeared as 7-cars (along with 345063 and 345064 which had to be converted back from 9-car units).

There are a few other units that have previously been reported as working out west, viz 004, 027, 053, 055, 058, 061, 062, 066. Do you (or anyone else) have any news on what these units are doing now, please?

There are two groups of these - 24 units have now carried passengers as 9-car units (including 345023/63/64):
345021/27/28/37/53/54/58/60 were in the group of units which appear not to have operated in passenger service after the withdrawal of 9-car operation to Reading in June.
345004/30/34/35/43/55/59/61/62/65/66/68/70 were in the group of units which operated Hayes and Heathrow services from late July to mid-September and Heathrow services since then.

The units with the new software now in use appear to be 345021/28/60 from the first group and 345030/43/65/68/70 from the second group together with 345023 which appears to have been the test unit for this upgrade. A fleet of nine units appears to be sufficient for five diagrams.

There aren't many observations posted of the units involved in Tunnel workings - it was 345024/25/31/32/33/36/41/50/67/69 but with the ramping up of testing, it would appear that more units are likely to be needed.

It would seem reasonable that the remainder of the fleet not being used for Tunnel testing or passenger service are simply parked at Old Oak Depot spare. I assume that as more units are upgraded to the next software type, there will be a return to operation for them.

EDIT: 345043 added to the list of 345s back in service today.

 

[Siemens Staines]

With 9-car units now operating to Hayes, two 7-car units (345006 and 345007) have been dragged to Ilford over the last two days to bolster the east side fleet.

18 7-car units at Ilford now 345003/05/06/07/08/09/10/11/12/14/15/16/17/22/38/39/42/56, and
12 7-car units at Old Oak Depot 345013/20/29/40/44/47/51/52/57/63/64

This facilitates the change in east-side operations such that the remaining 315s are diagrammed to work peak only from next week.

As noted above, the 9-car fleet at Old Oak Depot available for passenger services appears to be limited for the time being to 345021/23/28/30/60/65/68/70 for five diagrams. Reading services require 9 7-car units and the spare to run 5G70/5G71/5G72/5G73 - ie a hot spare at Maidenhead in the morning peak and Ladbroke Grove in the evening peak - ie 12 units for 10 diagrams.

345023 reported in service today on Heathrow services for the first time, taking the number which have carried passengers to 52 of the 70 units - just 345001/02/18/19/24/25/26/31/32/33/36/41/45/46/48/50/67/69 to go by my reckoning.

345049 is the 12th 7-car unit in service on the West side. I suspect this was just a slight oversight. Thank you for the comprehensive summary.

 

[JonathanH]

345049 is the 12th 7-car unit in service on the West side. I suspect this was just a slight oversight. Thank you for the comprehensive summary.

Yes, thanks for pointing out my omission. I have updated the post.