Class 345 progress

[D365]

It's a good job it diddnt take as long with Lancaster bombers as modern trains or we would have lost the war. You could have a whole war in the time theve been playing with the first 800.
K

Military expenditure is obviously far greater than the transport budget alone :roll:

And the priorities are very different. You can't compare.

 

[Peter Sarf]

This picture I took of plat 8 at Stratford reflects the situation you describe quite well. Was at about 6pm the other day.

Actually that does not look too bad at all !. Certainly not my experience at East Croydon just after the end of the morning peak when I would have to let one or two Thameslink services leave without me.

 

[Peter Sarf]

There is a good reason why I haven't cleared the 315s, and the epic crowds is it! I am looking at popping out to Stratford for some 321s and 360s on Friday, with a probable 315 mixed in to say farewell to them while the chance is there.

Of course, I'll probably end up on LU and DLR all morning now I've said that. Not a bad thing!

I always favoured Bethnal Green as you get more trains there and less chance of missing something.

 

[700007]

Is this another 345 delivery tomorrow? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H10707/2017/06/12/advanced

 

[spark001uk]

Is this another 345 delivery tomorrow? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H10707/2017/06/12/advanced

That's just a generic test/move path, note the "runs as required" message at the top, and the date ranges in the info below it. This will be activated as and when it's needed, at which time the message will disappear and "FRGT" will get replaced with a headcode.

 

[321over360]

Lets hope TFL & MTR Crossrail start getting there butts into gear more and start getting these trains out into revenue earning service as only thing i understand holding them back is the fact TFL Rail drivers havent been taught how to drive them, urm, thats the TOCs responsibility to ensure that happens and if not, why is TFL not holding MTR Crossrail to account for delaying the new trains introduction so the 315s can finally bugger off the GEML Metro routes, passengers have seen the 345s whizzing up and down from LST to SFD yet cant board them as are being tested by NR staff and not TFL Rail (Franchisee MTR Crossrail) staff and it is wrong, if MTR are incapable of sorting this out now then how will they cope when they get the GWML Heathrow Connect Services next year, if they cant get these trains out by the end of June then TFL should put the franchise up for bidding and MTR banned from bidding

 

[iphone76]

Lets hope TFL & MTR Crossrail start getting there butts into gear more and start getting these trains out into revenue earning service as only thing i understand holding them back is the fact TFL Rail drivers havent been taught how to drive them, urm, thats the TOCs responsibility to ensure that happens and if not, why is TFL not holding MTR Crossrail to account for delaying the new trains introduction so the 315s can finally bugger off the GEML Metro routes, passengers have seen the 345s whizzing up and down from LST to SFD yet cant board them as are being tested by NR staff and not TFL Rail (Franchisee MTR Crossrail) staff and it is wrong, if MTR are incapable of sorting this out now then how will they cope when they get the GWML Heathrow Connect Services next year, if they cant get these trains out by the end of June then TFL should put the franchise up for bidding and MTR banned from bidding

I'm afraid to say your understanding is not correct. They are being driven by MTR staff and quite a few drivers have been trained on them. It's important they are totally safe (DOO monitors, etc.) before they run in passenger service.

 

[CosherB]

It's a good job it diddnt take as long with Lancaster bombers as modern trains or we would have lost the war. You could have a whole war in the time theve been playing with the first 800.
K

Utter hogwash. Totally inappropriate comparison. :roll:

 

[ijmad]

Utter hogwash. Totally inappropriate comparison. :roll:

Indeed, I don't think they were as concerned with durability, disabled access or health & safety when building Lancaster Bombers... :roll:

 

[36270k]

There was a 345 in Gidea Park sidings yesterday.

 

[samuelmorris]

Lets hope TFL & MTR Crossrail start getting there butts into gear more and start getting these trains out into revenue earning service as only thing i understand holding them back is the fact TFL Rail drivers havent been taught how to drive them, urm, thats the TOCs responsibility to ensure that happens and if not, why is TFL not holding MTR Crossrail to account for delaying the new trains introduction so the 315s can finally bugger off the GEML Metro routes, passengers have seen the 345s whizzing up and down from LST to SFD yet cant board them as are being tested by NR staff and not TFL Rail (Franchisee MTR Crossrail) staff and it is wrong, if MTR are incapable of sorting this out now then how will they cope when they get the GWML Heathrow Connect Services next year, if they cant get these trains out by the end of June then TFL should put the franchise up for bidding and MTR banned from bidding

I'm pretty sure not introducing new rolling stock onto a railway line before it's ready is the right thing to do. As many people know, all too often even after the testing phase is completed, the first months and sometimes years of service of new trains are plagued with unforeseen issues, so if there are known issues that haven't been resolved, you wouldn't dare let the units out into service and cause chaos.
Unlike a lot of cases, there is no TOC waiting for the 315s to be cascaded and extension of operation of 315s will only cause a problem if they are not all withdrawn by the time the tunnels open, which isn't for nearly 2 whole years yet. They have plenty of time, no reason to withdraw the management contract just because of late introduction of new trains - I imagine the ball is mostly in Bombardier's court, not MTR's.

Also, SFD means Salford Central, for Shenfield you mean SNF. Might seem pedantic, but if you're going to use those abbreviations, please at least get them right

 

[MCR247]

Lets hope TFL & MTR Crossrail start getting there butts into gear more and start getting these trains out into revenue earning service as only thing i understand holding them back is the fact TFL Rail drivers havent been taught how to drive them, urm, thats the TOCs responsibility to ensure that happens and if not, why is TFL not holding MTR Crossrail to account for delaying the new trains introduction so the 315s can finally bugger off the GEML Metro routes, passengers have seen the 345s whizzing up and down from LST to SFD yet cant board them as are being tested by NR staff and not TFL Rail (Franchisee MTR Crossrail) staff and it is wrong, if MTR are incapable of sorting this out now then how will they cope when they get the GWML Heathrow Connect Services next year, if they cant get these trains out by the end of June then TFL should put the franchise up for bidding and MTR banned from bidding

And who would complain if they rushed it into service and one failed at Stratford in the peak? Oh thats right, most likely you

 

[CosherB]

You can keep testing and testing until they're perfect. And then you realise that they've never entered revenue earning service.

You have to bite the bullet at some point and go for it, accepting that they won't be perfect from the off and plan for some remedial work as part of their entry into service.

 

[dp21]

There was a 345 in Gidea Park sidings yesterday.

May have been 345007 as I saw it approaching Gidea Park on my way into London from Shenfield at 15:30sih

I also saw one on the reception road at Ilford depot so I think that one was running around. Didn't catch the number.

 

[Shunter_69]

It's definitely not a lack of drivers that's stopping them entering service. They've had lots of little faults that have curtailed the testing. GSM-R reception being particularly bad. One of the units had a battery fault last week that came out of the blue. Just teething troubles with a new fleet. Why rush them in to service when the 315's are still doing a good job?

 

[AM9]

... Why rush them in to service when the 315's are still doing a good job?

It's just that some train enthusiasts get a bit impatient when they can't see new stock running. Service reliability isn't high on their interest scales, they just want to see different movements.
The 315s, have been providing an intense service between Liverpool St. and Shenfield for over 35 years so keeping them running for a few more months to maintain that service, won't hurt anybody. The alternative would be to rush them into service and then having to withdraw them when their infant mortality rate becomes an embarassment, possibly not having the full fleet of 315s available to bring back as a temporary substitute.

 

[childwallblues]

There was a 345 in Gidea Park sidings yesterday.

345007 was at Shenfield on Tuesday.

 

[dp21]

It's just that some train enthusiasts get a bit impatient when they can't see new stock running. Service reliability isn't high on their interest scales, they just want to see different movements.
The 315s, have been providing an intense service between Liverpool St. and Shenfield for over 35 years so keeping them running for a few more months to maintain that service, won't hurt anybody. The alternative would be to rush them into service and then having to withdraw them when their infant mortality rate becomes an embarassment, possibly not having the full fleet of 315s available to bring back as a temporary substitute.

Exactly, the 345s will be in service 35/40 years; what damage will waiting a few more weeks do?

 

[absolutelymilk]

Isn't the whole point of having the soft launch to see how trains deal with passenger service, so faults can be changed with plenty of before there are lots of units waiting to enter service?

They can be put in late at night or in the middle of the day so that any failures won't affect peak service, and it also allows drivers/station staff to get used to them.

 

[Wivenswold]

The PR will be much worse if one of the first few failed and stuffed up an already busy line. It's a new train and there's lots of them on order for this part of the world so a safety first approach gets my vote.

 

[Camden]

Crossrail train parked up just south of Crewe.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Spotted 345006 hiding in Platform 18 at Liverpool Street at 9PM tonight.

 

[Shunter_69]

Spoke to one of the Bombardier fitters earlier and they are hoping to run one in service on Tuesday or Wednesday but didn't sound entirely confident.

 

[kennythelad]

crossrail train parked up just south of crewe.

345001

 

[Carntyne]

Isn't the whole point of having the soft launch to see how trains deal with passenger service, so faults can be changed with plenty of before there are lots of units waiting to enter service?

They can be put in late at night or in the middle of the day so that any failures won't affect peak service, and it also allows drivers/station staff to get used to them.

There's a process to follow though you don't just "put in" new units onto the mainline. They're not being held out of service for a laugh.

 

[absolutelymilk]

There's a process to follow though you don't just "put in" new units onto the mainline. They're not being held out of service for a laugh.

Of course, I'm not saying to rush that process. My comment was in response to other posters saying that disruption to service was a big reason to avoid launching them.

 

[Alfie1014]

The on-going problems on the GEML of late probably aren't helping when its not uncommon as today that there isn't enough useable infrastructure to run the booked service let alone any extra driver train runs. Though that probably explained the run seen late on Friday night that I saw as we left Liv St and was mentioned above.

 

[AM9]

The on-going problems on the GEML of late probably aren't helping when its not uncommon as today that there isn't enough useable infrastructure to run the booked service let alone any extra driver train runs. Though that probably explained the run seen late on Friday night that I saw as we left Liv St and was mentioned above.

At least the recently replaced OLE on the GEML wont hang down low and limp resulting in 20mph TSRs as was normal on days as hot as today.

 

[class387]

Spoke to one of the Bombardier fitters earlier and they are hoping to run one in service on Tuesday or Wednesday but didn't sound entirely confident.

I doubt it due to all the problems (heat, train faults, speed limits etc.), but is this likely to still happen?

 

[AlexNL]

I'm pretty sure not introducing new rolling stock onto a railway line before it's ready is the right thing to do.

For anyone who's thinking otherwise: look at the Fyra V250 entry into service onto the Amsterdam - Brussels route. While technically the trains were considered to be safe, they were very unreliable and turned out to be disastrous.

Mention the name "Fyra" to an NS manager and they'll probably still feel a shiver going down their spine.