Class 345 progress

[Class377/5]

The Hitachi doors on the 395s and 800s are a special case

I'm more surprised that the 700s (and 707s) have sliding doors, as they are meant to be faster to open, while the 345s have plug doors, seeing that the 345s will be operating in very similar conditions. It's clearly something specified for the 700s, as the previous Desiros all had plug doors

IIRC Siemens decided on sliding door as they believed that the door mechanism tends to fail far too often and would damage 24tph if any door problems occurred.

Having seen how quickly the ATO system on the 700's goes from stopping to having doors open, its an important factor.

 

[Mikey C]

At a talk on Crossrail that I recently attended, the Crossrail representative said that the sliding plug doors were preferred over sliding doors for the central section stations which will have platform edge doors. This is because the open doors partially block the space between the train and the platform edge panelling and doors and make it less likely that a person, possibly slipping sideways at the door opening, would get stuck between this wall and the train.

Thanks, though surprised that the gap between the train and platform doors would be wide enough for someone to fall into!

Indeed, I presume you'd have to make the gap slightly wider to FIT the plug doors in?

 

[Schnuzelbug]

while the 345s have plug doors

I thought the 345s would have pocket doors like the Overground 378s?

 

[Goldfish62]

Hitachi is a very conservative company. They have achieved enviable levels of reliability though evolution of their engineering rather than by revolution. Thus, if they have a system, such as a door system, that works, they would rather improve it than change it. The sliding door mechanism that pushes the door against the frame when closed is one such evolution. As others have said, this is somewhat difficult to do with bi-parting doors, and the alternative, a wide single door, would have all sorts of disadvantages. However it is also important to say that sliding plug doors have been developed to be just as reliable as the single sliding door system

Hitachi have of course relented and are fitting sliding plug doors on the AT200s. It's a pity they could have done likewise on the IEP/AT300s. Pocket doors just do not look right on such trains.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Hitachi have of course relented and are fitting sliding plug doors on the AT200s. It's a pity they could have done likewise on the IEP/AT300s. Pocket doors just do not look right on such trains.

Hitachi only relented when their door system supplier, iFE Doors, was able to demonstrate satisfactory reliability. I think iFE were a little upset they didn't get a plug door design onto AT300 and came back with a better design.

 

[samuelmorris]

IIRC Siemens decided on sliding door as they believed that the door mechanism tends to fail far too often and would damage 24tph if any door problems occurred.

Having seen how quickly the ATO system on the 700's goes from stopping to having doors open, its an important factor.

I'm quite fascinated by that, is it similarly efficient (barring time taken for the train to be allowed to proceed by the driver) in terms of departure? Further, is this complemented by rapid operation of the doors themselves, or just in terms of release? One wonders whether integration with platform edge doors would slow things down a bit on the Elizabeth line, as one of the common frustrations at extremely busy stations is the component of the dwell time caused between delay between train becoming stationary and passengers being able to alight/board and between the door closure warning sounding and the train actually departing. Almost a complete non-issue with a 1-4tph regional service, but with 24tph or even higher metro systems (I note future-proofing for 32tph has been cited a few times) it makes a huge difference. If some development has actually led to all that becoming more efficient, as mundane as it might sound, it'd be hugely beneficial to operating high volume systems like Crossrail, Thameslink and so on, and one might also argue in time, many busy commuter peaks from large stations, if the technology becomes viable to deploy on complex networks.

 

[47802]

Thanks, though surprised that the gap between the train and platform doors would be wide enough for someone to fall into!

Indeed, I presume you'd have to make the gap slightly wider to FIT the plug doors in?

Good job they don't have 442 style plug doors as the gap would have to be massive, well youve got to get a 442 mention in some where

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I hear 25kV AC testing in now underway at Bombardier's Derby test track.

 

[samuelmorris]

Interesting, is that with a complete unit? If it were you'd have expected some sort of press announcement...

 

[D365]

A complete seven-car unit I imagine? My assumption will be that they're putting it into service on TfL Rail initially, and that there'll be some kind of announcement when units are on their way to Ilford.

 

[Thomas6187]

This might prove some insight

Class 345 Time Lapse

 

[Philip Phlopp]

A complete seven-car unit I imagine? My assumption will be that they're putting it into service on TfL Rail initially, and that there'll be some kind of announcement when units are on their way to Ilford.

Yes. Old Dalby first though. Keep an eye out for paths on RTT etc.

 

[jopsuk]

There's various folks tweeting pictures and even video from a press event at Derby today

 

[swt_passenger]

TfL gave some dates in recent board papers:
Old Dalby next month,
On network testing Nov 16,
Entry into passenger service in 7 car format May 17,
First 9 car in use April 18.

(On network test location not mentioned but I assume possibly based on Bletchley as per other recent deliveries.)

 

[superkev]

IIRC Siemens decided on sliding door as they believed that the door mechanism tends to fail far too often and would damage 24tph if any door problems occurred.

Having seen how quickly the ATO system on the 700's goes from stopping to having doors open, its an important factor.

I'm old enough to remember when, after a particular bad winter of frozen sliding door tracks, i think it was network south east said they would only procure trains with plug doors.
K

 

[sprinterguy]

There's various folks tweeting pictures and even video from a press event at Derby today

There's also now a story on the Derby Telegraph site:

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/bom...mazing-video/story-29564861-detail/story.html
Bombardier unveils first Derby-built Crossrail train

Derby's Bombardier has unveiled the first of 66 Crossrail trains it is building for the new rail network in London.

At an event held at its Litchurch Lane factory this morning, officials from Transport for London (TfL), which ordered the trains, got a chance to see up close the first completed Aventra train that is destined for Crossrail, which has been renamed the Elizabeth Line.

Bombardier landed the £1 billion Crossrail deal in February, 2014. Since then, the company has invested millions in its Derby site to prepare for the production of the trains, including a new £12.5 million testing and commissioning facility called V Shop.

The building is initially being used to test trains destined for Crossrail. The model of train that Bombardier is supplying is the Aventra.

The trains will feature air-conditioned walk-through carriages, with capacity for 1,500 customers, Wi-Fi and 4G. They will also be fully accessible for wheelchair users. The trains are due to enter service in May, 2017, although Crossrail will not fully open until 2019.

Carrying 200 million customers a year, Crossrail will mean more frequent and reliable journeys and support more homes and jobs across London and the South East.

TfL and Bombardier have worked on the designs of the new trains with Barber & Osgerby acting as design advisors on the project.

Constructed using strong, but lightweight materials such as aluminium for the body shell, the Crossrail trains are light, yet well equipped for performance and customer comfort with features such as intelligent lighting and temperature control systems.

The trains will regenerate electricity back into the power supply when braking to use up to 30% less energy, as well as delivering faster journey times than the old trains they will replace between Liverpool Street and Shenfield.

Large, clear areas around the doors allow quicker and easier boarding and alighting.A mixture of metro-style and bay seating is available through the train.

The trains will be driver-operated with on-train customer information systems delivering real-time travel information, allowing customers to plan their onward journeys whilst onboard.

The interior design and colour palette has been selected to provide an accessible and welcoming environment. The design includes darker floors and natural finish materials that will wear in, and not wear out, ensuring they retain their high-quality feel for years to come. The light coloured ceilings also maximise the feeling of height and openness inside the new trains.

The material and colour choices also align with Crossrail stations for a consistent customer experience.

There are four dedicated wheelchair spaces on each train. There are also a number of "multi-use spaces", where seating can be tipped up to accommodate prams or luggage.

 

[Chris125]

Richard Clinnick has, among other things, posted some photos of the interiors

Is it just me, or is that AWFUL - why on earth make the interior of the train deliberately dark and dingy? It seems to make the space feel smaller as well.

 

[fgwrich]

Richard Clinnick has, among other things, posted some photos of the interiors

Is it just me, or is that AWFUL - why on earth make the interior of the train deliberately dark and dingy? It seems to make the space feel smaller as well.

WOW, That's bad. I'm already disappointed by the use of Grey with some TOCs - It makes GWRs new interiors already feel dated with the Turbos having the excitement of a 1980s office, but that really is dark and dismal.

What I don't like is - The dark grey on the seat backs - It creates a LOT of shadows, dark grey around the window panels - While it'll hide the infamous Bombardier panel staining issues, it makes the interior space look and feel smaller - and the Darker Grey on the Ceilings.

It really does offer a stark contrast to the bright and airy Desiro Cities from Siemens. What remains to be seen is which will be the more reliable!

 

[Domh245]

WOW, That's bad. I'm already disappointed by the use of Grey with some TOCs - It makes GWRs new interiors already feel dated with the Turbos having the excitement of a 1980s office, but that really is dark and dismal.

What I don't like is - The dark grey on the seat backs - It creates a LOT of shadows, dark grey around the window panels - While it'll hide the infamous Bombardier panel staining issues, it makes the interior space look and feel smaller - and the Darker Grey on the Ceilings.

Let's just hope that the photos aren't doing it justice and that the actual units will be slightly less dark

It really does offer a stark contrast to the bright and airy Desiro Cities from Siemens. What remains to be seen is which will be the more reliable!

I have my suspicions as to which unit will be the victor.

 

[Wivenswold]

I'm not a fan of bright interiors, like the S stock. It could do with some underseat lighting though, to guide the partially sighted.

 

[class387]

I'm not sure about the interior yet. I think it depends on how the trains are lit - something like that in the Z50000 'Francillien' units of Paris would be good, which does include underseat lighting:

 

[fgwrich]

The interior design and colour palette has been selected to provide an accessible and welcoming environment. The design includes darker floors and natural finish materials that will wear in, and not wear out, ensuring they retain their high-quality feel for years to come. The light coloured ceilings also maximise the feeling of height and openness inside the new trains.

The material and colour choices also align with Crossrail stations for a consistent customer experience.

I wonder what train The Derby Telegraph were on for that statement (or how much Bombardier/TfL paid them for it!). Also noted is the choice of a more redder scheme on the seats, which seems to be contrary to the mostly Purple / Lilac based colourscheme of CrossRail.

 

[Chris125]

IanVisits has some further photos:
https://twitter.com/ianvisits/status/758972934496980992

Apparently the moquette is a 'temp design'.

 

[transmanche]

IanVisits has some further photos:
https://twitter.com/ianvisits/status/758972934496980992

Apparently the moquette is a 'temp design'.

It looks to me like the type of colouring they might use for the priority seats. Perhaps they didn't have enough 'normal' moquette, so used the 'priority seat' moquette on all the seats?

 

[class387]

It looks to me like the type of colouring they might use for the priority seats. Perhaps they didn't have enough 'normal' moquette, so used the 'priority seat' moquette on all the seats?

I prefer this lighter moquette and hope they keep it as it is. If they used the original darker moquette on an already dark train it would make it look even less inviting.

 

[Class377/5]

TfL gave some dates in recent board papers:
Old Dalby next month,
On network testing Nov 16,
Entry into passenger service in 7 car format May 17,
First 9 car in use April 18.

(On network test location not mentioned but I assume possibly based on Bletchley as per other recent deliveries.)

On network testing is the route they will operate on, is GWMEML.

Richard Clinnick has, among other things, posted some photos of the interiors

Is it just me, or is that AWFUL - why on earth make the interior of the train deliberately dark and dingy? It seems to make the space feel smaller as well.

It maybe camera phone isn't doing them justice but have seen an image of a doorway in darkness.

 

[Fincra5]

Richard Clinnick has, among other things, posted some photos of the interiors

Is it just me, or is that AWFUL - why on earth make the interior of the train deliberately dark and dingy? It seems to make the space feel smaller as well.

Can see the C2C 387 in the background?

 

[fgwrich]

Can see the C2C 387 in the background?

Yes. Alongside one of the GWR ones.

 

[class387]

Can see the C2C 387 in the background?

If you look further down his twitter page there is an individual photo of the c2c 387, as well as a photo of a GWR 387 and more shots and videos of the 345.

 

[samuelmorris]

Wow, that's a lot darker than I was expecting. I noticed the seat moquette was different to the concept video but that's hardly a major issue. It's a bit of an ugly design compared to the patterns used on LO and the S stock but if it's not final, then the point is irrelevant. That said, why fit an entire unit with the wrong seat covers? Surely they don't need every seat frame populated with cushions to run tests?

The use of an entire vehicle for longitudinal seating rather than splitting it within each one is an interesting choice, I can't decide if I like or dislike that - it makes the inevitable crush at the first / last carriage better to deal with as all-longitudinal ones will have a higher capacity, but still...

There may be an issue with the lighting in those pictures but there are enough of them from different angles to make it look like it genuinely will be dingy in there - the main reason for it is the location of the lighting - there is no lighting (even if diffused) pointing down at people, it is all produced sideways out the top, blocked by what I assume are the air conditioners - if you take a look at all previous TfL stock in recent times, there is always light that is directly visible to the passenger. Secondary light alone is not enough to provide a bright looking interior, which arguably is what a metro service like Crossrail should have.