Class 345 progress

[700007]

But it's taking over lines where there is a large flow into London, from the surrounding areas like Bucks & Berks.
All the seats should be like the 700s or like the German S-bahn trains.

Indeed, I have been commuting on the East TfL Rail since MTR took over the service on a daily basis and the train is usually heaving by Romford or Chadwell Heath in the morning peak with a battle for passengers after here trying to get on. And on that train the general rule is that nobody gets off until either Stratford or London Liverpool Street. It's not like the London Underground where handfuls of people are getting on and off at every single station.

But a lot of passengers are unhappy with the lack of seating and the prospect of having to stand every morning for 30+ minutes.

 

[samuelmorris]

What's being forgotten is it isn't strictly the trains that will reduce standing load, it's the service frequency the full service will introduce. Going from 8tph GDP / 8tph SNF each only serving half the stops to 16tph GDP / 12tph SNF serving everywhere will make a big difference. Plus of course they'll then be 9-car trains rather than the current 7. Changing the seating layout now does seem a bit of a kneejerk to me, welcome as it would be to me personally travelling from Zone 9 I wonder if it misses the bigger picture.

 

[Non Multi]

I shall be a 'doubting Thomas' until there's photographic (or video) evidence of TfL's Damascene conversion to transverse seating!

If they go and fit lavatories, I might need to have a lie down...

 

[700007]

Yes I really would love to see a photo of this! Or at least know the unit number.

 

[matthewmacleod]

I can understand folks being a bit miffed about the reduction in seats on each service, but the increase in frequency means that the total number of "seats per hour" will still go up from customers from beyond Gidea Park – with the benefit that there will be much more standing room too. GDP customers do have it a little worse though, I admit.

Are the calling patterns finalised? My understanding was that there were going to be a few peak-only Shenfield–Heathrow services too, but I can't find any reference to them. Probably out-of-date information!

 

[swt_passenger]

Are the calling patterns finalised? My understanding was that there were going to be a few peak-only Shenfield–Heathrow services too, but I can't find any reference to them. Probably out-of-date information!

This has come up in a couple of the other Crossrail threads in the infrastructure or timetables sections somewhere, and I think yes, it was part of an earlier timetable, something to do with the transition between peak and off peak numbers, but following last year’s decision to increase the number of both peak and offpeak trains west of Paddington I think someone worked out that it wasn’t needed and all Heathrow services would now be from Abbeywood.

But I haven’t searched for it...

 

[700007]

Are the calling patterns finalised? My understanding was that there were going to be a few peak-only Shenfield–Heathrow services too, but I can't find any reference to them. Probably out-of-date information!

The plan at the moment is for it to be all stations on the East Side and skip stopping on the West Side due to freight pathing issues.

It is also going to operate, at present, in a very similar manner to the Central line where all trains make it through Central London, however all ex-GEML trains would go towards Reading / Maidenhead and all ex-Abbey Wood trains would go towards Heathrow Airport (Central usually operates West Ruislip to Epping and Ealing Broadway to via the Hainault loop).

From my understanding, a lot of people are unhappy that places like Stratford, Ilford, Romford and Brentwood aren't having direct trains to Heathrow Airport for pretty much the whole day every day in favour of Canary Wharf who it is only going to be beneficial during business hours.

Hopefully the extra T5 paths if and when secured could see at least even 2tph to the Shenfield branch. I personally don't see the need for six or even eight trains an hour to Abbey Wood daily.

 

[absolutelymilk]

GDP = Gidea Park and SNF = Shenfield for those not from these parts.

 

[matthewmacleod]

From my understanding, a lot of people are unhappy that places like Stratford, Ilford, Romford and Brentwood aren't having direct trains to Heathrow Airport for pretty much the whole day every day in favour of Canary Wharf who it is only going to be beneficial during business hours.

That was my thinking – I'm on the Shenfield branch, so it would have been nice to have direct trains.

On the other hand… it'll be a same-platform interchange at any station from Whitechapel to Paddington, with at most a few minutes to wait for a Heathrow service. So it's really not worth getting worked up about!

 

[rebmcr]

That was my thinking – I'm on the Shenfield branch, so it would have been nice to have direct trains.

On the other hand… it'll be a same-platform interchange at any station from Whitechapel to Paddington, with at most a few minutes to wait for a Heathrow service. So it's really not worth getting worked up about!

It's also worth bearing in mind that the planned "mostly split" service might be a hedge against initial problems. I wouldn't be surprised to see some variations introduced in a few years, once the line is properly bedded-in and functioning.

 

[hwl]

From my understanding, a lot of people are unhappy that places like Stratford, Ilford, Romford and Brentwood aren't having direct trains to Heathrow Airport for pretty much the whole day every day in favour of Canary Wharf who it is only going to be beneficial during business hours.

Hopefully the extra T5 paths if and when secured could see at least even 2tph to the Shenfield branch. I personally don't see the need for six or even eight trains an hour to Abbey Wood daily.

Canary Wharf paid to have direct services so there isn't much room for justifiable complaint.

 

[jopsuk]

If you have a simple system, with two western termini and two eastern, you can more easily have an even service pattern by making it
A-B
and
C-D

so that the pattern is
AB
CD
AB
CD

repeat

If you want to have, at equal frequency, A-D and C-B trains
then you end up with
AB
CD
AD
CB

or
AB
AD
CB
CD

through your core. Either way, you have an uneven service pattern

 

[700007]

Canary Wharf paid to have direct services so there isn't much room for justifiable complaint.

Indeed, that was part of the agreement. I would still like to see even 2tph from the Shenfield branch directly go to Heathrow. It allows Abbey Wood to keep their 4/6tph.

If you have a simple system, with two western termini and two eastern, you can more easily have an even service pattern by making it
A-B
and
C-D

so that the pattern is
AB
CD
AB
CD

repeat

If you want to have, at equal frequency, A-D and C-B trains
then you end up with
AB
CD
AD
CB

or
AB
AD
CB
CD

through your core. Either way, you have an uneven service pattern

Yes I thought of this as an issue when trying to work out the Maths yesterday. I like to think I am a bit nifty with basic scheduling but for the life of me I couldn't write one that would fully satisfy me and part of it was down to uneven service gaps !

 

[colchesterken]

I used to commute in the early 60 ( on my beloved class 306 s ) it seems to me the service has gone downhill, in the old days you had first stop Seven Kings services and Stratford- Ilford- Romford and all stations to saufend
I used to live in Forest gate did not effect me much there were some trains that did not stop at Maryland
But the posh folk at places like Chadwell Heath must get bored all stations to Liv st

 

[Railperf]

I used to commute in the early 60 ( on my beloved class 306 s ) it seems to me the service has gone downhill, in the old days you had first stop Seven Kings services and Stratford- Ilford- Romford and all stations to saufend
I used to live in Forest gate did not effect me much there were some trains that did not stop at Maryland
But the posh folk at places like Chadwell Heath must get bored all stations to Liv st

It remember a few semi-fast services back in the late 90's. I think every second train ran fast Stratford to Ilford and then all stations after that. But i might be mistaken.

 

[ScotGG]

From my understanding, a lot of people are unhappy that places like Stratford, Ilford, Romford and Brentwood aren't having direct trains to Heathrow Airport for pretty much the whole day every day in favour of Canary Wharf who it is only going to be beneficial during business hours.

Hopefully the extra T5 paths if and when secured could see at least even 2tph to the Shenfield branch. I personally don't see the need for six or even eight trains an hour to Abbey Wood daily.

But then again Essex does have Stansted. Kent has no airport anywhere near, and much traffic to Crossrail is expected from Kent changing at Abbey Wood. Gatwick isn't great from Medway.

But when all is said and done, changing from one branch to the other is the easiest interchange in the world. Get off at platform level with doors, wait 5 mins max, board other train.

 

[700007]

But then again Essex does have Stansted. Kent has no airport anywhere near, and much traffic to Crossrail is expected from Kent changing at Abbey Wood. Gatwick isn't great from Medway.

But when all is said and done, changing from one branch to the other is the easiest interchange in the world. Get off at platform level with doors, wait 5 mins max, board other train.

That's a good point which is why a huge fuss isn't being made. Still, even 2tph out of 6 or 8 would be nice.

 

[BRX]

This is the second (or is it third) movement of a Crossrail unit along the south london line I've seen go by - what are these moves all about?

 

[DanNCL]

This is the second (or is it third) movement of a Crossrail unit along the south london line I've seen go by - what are these moves all about?

It'll most likely be to do with the 345s that have been based at Abbey Wood for testing in the tunnels, I believe these moves are to swap the units at Abbey Wood with units at Old Oak Common.

 

[Lockwood]

Dumb question...
They've been doing testing in the tunnels.
The stuff needs to go from one side of the tunnel to the other.

Couldn't they use the tunnel? Even collect more numbers on the return journey?

 

[jellybaby]

Couldn't they use the tunnel?

Rumors suggest station fit and testing signals etc in the tunnels are behind schedule. Anything that can be done another way probably is so that the essential tunnel work can take place.

 

[hurri67]

Is it set in stone, that the line will be operating 24hr train service.I have not seen a first/last train time mentioned?

Anybody have any idea's?

 

[matt_world2004]

Is it set in stone, that the line will be operating 24hr train service.I have not seen a first/last train time mentioned?

Anybody have any idea's?

Its not I believe the first train arrives at Tottenham court road about 5:30 and the last one leaves about 12:30 London reconnections had an article on the planned service pattern.

 

[plcd1]

Is it set in stone, that the line will be operating 24hr train service.I have not seen a first/last train time mentioned?

Anybody have any idea's?

This is just my speculation. There has not been a squeak from TfL about a 24 hour service. I think this is unlikely until the service has fully bedded in after Dec 2019 because TfL / MTR Crossrail have got to get through three key phases of service build up - Dec 2018, May 2019 and full through service in Dec 2019. I would not be shocked if TfL opted to run a New Years Eve overnight service in the core / Abbey Wood branch as a taster service but no more than that. I think 24 hour weekend service in the core section will be a Mayoral manifesto commitment from all the candidates for the May 2020 election - it's an easy thing to say and probably not too expensive and would be attractive to some voters. TfL will also be in complete control of engineering possessions on the "new" railway. I am sceptical that TfL could run overnight services on the NR tracks east and west of the core. Network Rail, for understandable reasons, are loathe to give up any of their possession times for inspection / engineering works.

TfL have had various consultations about Crossrail Railways Act documentation. One of those gave an indicative service pattern about 20 months ago. No mention of a 24 hour service then.

 

[matt_world2004]

This is just my speculation. There has not been a squeak from TfL about a 24 hour service. I think this is unlikely until the service has fully bedded in after Dec 2019 because TfL / MTR Crossrail have got to get through three key phases of service build up - Dec 2018, May 2019 and full through service in Dec 2019. I would not be shocked if TfL opted to run a New Years Eve overnight service in the core / Abbey Wood branch as a taster service but no more than that. I think 24 hour weekend service in the core section will be a Mayoral manifesto commitment from all the candidates for the May 2020 election - it's an easy thing to say and probably not too expensive and would be attractive to some voters. TfL will also be in complete control of engineering possessions on the "new" railway. I am sceptical that TfL could run overnight services on the NR tracks east and west of the core. Network Rail, for understandable reasons, are loathe to give up any of their possession times for inspection / engineering works.

TfL have had various consultations about Crossrail Railways Act documentation. One of those gave an indicative service pattern about 20 months ago. No mention of a 24 hour service then.

GwR already run 24 hour services on the west of the core albeit every two hours end of CR engineering will allow an hourly 24 hour service to develop. Weather one will or not. I think if you do see a 24 hour service west of the core. It will be a 30 minute frequency with an hourly service to heathrow. Using the junction under single line working and an hourly service to Reading.

 

[LLivery]

This is just my speculation. There has not been a squeak from TfL about a 24 hour service. I think this is unlikely until the service has fully bedded in after Dec 2019 because TfL / MTR Crossrail have got to get through three key phases of service build up - Dec 2018, May 2019 and full through service in Dec 2019. I would not be shocked if TfL opted to run a New Years Eve overnight service in the core / Abbey Wood branch as a taster service but no more than that. I think 24 hour weekend service in the core section will be a Mayoral manifesto commitment from all the candidates for the May 2020 election - it's an easy thing to say and probably not too expensive and would be attractive to some voters. TfL will also be in complete control of engineering possessions on the "new" railway. I am sceptical that TfL could run overnight services on the NR tracks east and west of the core. Network Rail, for understandable reasons, are loathe to give up any of their possession times for inspection / engineering works.

TfL have had various consultations about Crossrail Railways Act documentation. One of those gave an indicative service pattern about 20 months ago. No mention of a 24 hour service then.

Network Rail said just a few weeks ago they wish to expand 24 hour operation and 24 hr services already run between Paddington and Reading.

 

[Goldfish62]

First 345 ran on ATO between Westbourne Park and Abbey Wood earlier this week

 

[700007]

I can see a 24 hour service operating between London Paddington and Reading / Heathrow and London Liverpool Street / Stratford and Shenfield but not through the core. I think passengers will be expected to get the Central line from Ealing Broadway to Liverpool Street / Stratford if they intend to get to the other side of the core. It saves on costs and partially develops on existing night services and aspirations.

 

[matt_world2004]

I can see a 24 hour service operating between London Paddington and Reading / Heathrow and London Liverpool Street / Stratford and Shenfield but not through the core. I think passengers will be expected to get the Central line from Ealing Broadway to Liverpool Street / Stratford if they intend to get to the other side of the core. It saves on costs and partially develops on existing night services and aspirations.

The core is compatible with single line working test trains have been videoed using one section of track, I don't know if that could provide the required frequency for night workings. At 15 mins from Paddington to Stratford it will roughly allow a 45 minute frequency at night through the core.

 

[childwallblues]

345040 was noted at LNWR Crewe on Monday night.