Class 345 progress

[phoenixcronin]

Is it bad then, that I think it looks fantastic?

yes, please change your opinion

 

[aleggatta]

I've been trying to work something out- Is there any electrical connections on the coupler? Seems to be a distinct lack of electrical head... Or is it strictly an emergency coupler for rescue? considering the 700's have electrical connections, you would have thought there would have been the provision for brake control at the least?

 

[Fincra5]

I like the livery. More modern than the classic TfL Style. Not too keen on the front end...

 

[jon0844]

I think the front looks hideous, but most of that is down to the colour scheme. It looks like an old train, as in something from the 80s.

Maybe TfL want that look, as the interior will no doubt look equally dated.

 

[samuelmorris]

I don't dislike the colour scheme that much - I think it's the ugliest multiple unit without a corridor connection I've seen for a long time, possibly only second to the 460. As said, the front end in the concept design looks good, this really doesn't - especially when compared to its competitor the Desiro City. Ultimately what the front end looks like doesn't really matter but since TfL are fairly conscious of brand image I'm a little surprised the front looks as bad as it does.

 

[AM9]

I don't dislike the colour scheme that much - I think it's the ugliest multiple unit without a corridor connection I've seen for a long time, possibly only second to the 460. As said, the front end in the concept design looks good, this really doesn't - especially when compared to its competitor the Desiro City. Ultimately what the front end looks like doesn't really matter but since TfL are fairly conscious of brand image I'm a little surprised the front looks as bad as it does.

Surely, the main difference between the concept pictures and the actual fronts as built is that the valance hasn't been fitted. The body is faired outwards on both but without the matching valance, it creates the 'fish lip' effect which some object to. Maybe the valance just wasn't fitted to the press launch pair as t was stated that there were component shortages at the time.
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I've been trying to work something out- Is there any electrical connections on the coupler? Seems to be a distinct lack of electrical head... Or is it strictly an emergency coupler for rescue? considering the 700's have electrical connections, you would have thought there would have been the provision for brake control at the least?

The 700s have been engineered to rescue each other in the event of a total unit failure in the core. This requires a full control connection in addition to the Dellner mechanical coupling. Surely the 345s have a similar requirement given the service impact of a unit failure in the core?

 

[samuelmorris]

That would make sense - the 'exposed' front is largely what makes it look so odd.

 

[47802]

Surely, the main difference between the concept pictures and the actual fronts as built is that the valance hasn't been fitted. The body is faired outwards on both but without the matching valance, it creates the 'fish lip' effect which some object to. Maybe the valance just wasn't fitted to the press launch pair as t was stated that there were component shortages at the time.
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The 700s have been engineered to rescue each other in the event of a total unit failure in the core. This requires a full control connection in addition to the Dellner mechanical coupling. Surely the 345s have a similar requirement given the service impact of a unit failure in the core?

I think it looks OK as far as I aware the valance was fitted to one end at the press launch while the other end didn't have it, however the colour of the valance has been changed to black rather than body colour of the Tfl images. Tfl released images of what the train was going to look like which were very close to the finished product I suspect it was never going to look like those early images of the Aventra.

I guess Tfl may decide to change the colour of the valence and go back to body colour if it gets a poor reaction, or they may leave it black as being more practical, the 'S' stock was changed for more black and less red around that area.

 

[The Growl]

I think it looks OK as far as I aware the valance was fitted to one end at the press launch while the other end didn't have it, however the colour of the valance has been changed to black rather than body colour of the Tfl images. Tfl released images of what the train was going to look like which were very close to the finished product I suspect it was never going to look like those early images of the Aventra.

Of course it wasn't, but they could've done a better job TBH.

I guess Tfl may decide to change the colour of the valence and go back to body colour if it gets a poor reaction, or they may leave it black as being more practical, the 'S' stock was changed for more black and less red around that area.

I never seen that, got any pictures of it?

 

[Domh245]

Of course it wasn't, but they could've done a better job TBH.

Part of the problem as well is that the cutout in the valance is very rectangular which doesn't look that good. If they'd kept the slightly rounded trapezoidal one that appeared in the first renders it'd have been much better IMO.

I never seen that, got any pictures of it?

Here is a photo of a red-valanced S8. IIRC, the reason for the change from red to black valances was due to "LU heritage" (ie the LU livery isn't supposed to have red extending that far down) and I think it a reason why some S8s still have red topped valances instead of black.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say I actually quite like the styling (but not the livery). Very French and certainly a design improvement on some of the MF stock used on the Paris Metro.

 

[The Growl]

Part of the problem as well is that the cutout in the valance is very rectangular which doesn't look that good. If they'd kept the slightly rounded trapezoidal one that appeared in the first renders it'd have been much better IMO.

Possibly.

Here is a photo of a red-valanced S8. IIRC, the reason for the change from red to black valances was due to "LU heritage" (ie the LU livery isn't supposed to have red extending that far down) and I think it a reason why some S8s still have red topped valances instead of black.

That full red front looks quite bad, almost as bad as the aventra.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It looks like a squashed fish. I can't believe they paid someone to take that very nice concept and manage to **** it up in every possible way. Terrible!

Do I detect a class nickname along the lines of "Haddock" being developed?

 

[whoosh]

Considering the large passenger numbers expected, surely 'The Sardine'?

 

[The Growl]

Considering the large passenger numbers expected, surely 'The Sardine'?

Not bad.

 

[Techniquest]

Is it bad then, that I think it looks fantastic?

Not at all, I already like it and look forward to getting some snaps in of the 345s. They look so much better than the 380s first did, although I eventually got used to them and now love them. Yes, I did just say that, far superior to the 334s were on the Ayr runs. Not in terms of enjoyment from an enthusiast point of view of course, on that front I love 334s!

Bring on the 345s I say, although admittedly most of my travels on them will be during off-peak times. Bring on CrossRail full stop in my opinion!

EDIT: Whoever said they're uglier than 460s, really? 460s looked as sleek as anything when the noses were down!

 

[samuelmorris]

I think that was me - sleek maybe, certainly when compared to 458s, but nah in my opinion they just looked bizarre, I think mainly due to the strange light clusters and large overhang at the front.

Crossrail indeed I am very much looking forward to, although the recent posting of service frequencies to wikipedia, if correct, is a little disappointing (No direct services from Shenfield to Heathrow, or from Abbey Wood to Reading/Maidenhead).

 

[The Growl]

I think that was me - sleek maybe, certainly when compared to 458s, but nah in my opinion they just looked bizarre, I think mainly due to the strange light clusters and large overhang at the front.

Did you mean to reference this 460 by any chance?

 

[samuelmorris]

No, if anything I think I actually prefer it like that

 

[Techniquest]

No, if anything I think I actually prefer it like that

You might be on your own with that view!

 

[J-2739]

Did you mean to reference this 460 by any chance?

Looks like a clunky slam door with all the modern features. Doesn't look half bad but I don't see it winning any awards!

The design of the 345s has grown on me a bit, but I find the Desiro City of a much nicer design.

 

[samuelmorris]

Yeah that's the main issue - the 345 isn't grotesque by any means, but it's invariably going to be compared to the 700 in all aspects given the similarity of its role and the 700 is, aesthetically at least, far superior in my view. The Desiro City really is a smart looking train. How good the rest of it is though, varies wildly depending on who you ask :P

 

[Mikey C]

Yeah that's the main issue - the 345 isn't grotesque by any means, but it's invariably going to be compared to the 700 in all aspects given the similarity of its role and the 700 is, aesthetically at least, far superior in my view. The Desiro City really is a smart looking train. How good the rest of it is though, varies wildly depending on who you ask :P

I prefer the 345s personally, the sliding doors of the 700 to me make it look old fashioned, like an updated 321 from the side

 

[Brian Aylott]

I like the livery. More modern than the classic TfL Style. Not too keen on the front end...

I'm happy with the unit's exterior generally but does it matter at all what it looks like?
What is really important is whether the unit is going to be really reliable and have an acceptable interior
Brian

 

[ScotGG]

They look very early 90s to my eyes. The front reminds me of a DLR and the curved windows straight from a Networker. Not saying that a problem.

 

[phoenixcronin]

They look very early 90s to my eyes. The front reminds me of a DLR and the curved windows straight from a Networker. Not saying that a problem.

Only 20 years behind! Money well spent!

 

[D365]

How about the lights, they're taken straight from 89001.

 

[fgwrich]

How about the lights, they're taken straight from 89001.

Think they look more like they've come from a 175 than the Badger! In fact, I'd say the whole face of the unit looks like an 175 meets Networker updated for 2016!

 

[D365]

Think they look more like they've come from a 175 than the Badger! In fact, I'd say the whole face of the unit looks like an 175 meets Networker updated for 2016!

Well I meant the way in which the headlights and indicator lights are vertically stacked, but then I've never seen a 175 in the flesh.

 

[mainframe444]

Part of the problem as well is that the cutout in the valance is very rectangular which doesn't look that good. If they'd kept the slightly rounded trapezoidal one that appeared in the first renders it'd have been much better IMO.





Here is a photo of a red-valanced S8. IIRC, the reason for the change from red to black valances was due to "LU heritage" (ie the LU livery isn't supposed to have red extending that far down) and I think it a reason why some S8s still have red topped valances instead of black.

The reason for this change was down to cost. The valance on the S Stock is a single piece moulding each side, and in order for the that part to be red it meant painting a single component two colours.

MF