Class 322s at ScotRail

[codenamecuebal]

I'm slightly disappointed that I won't be on a 320 for a while - they stopped running any to Milngavie, the Edinburgh trains are 334's and the Lanark/Motherwell are all 318. So if I want to enjoy a nice 320, I have to get a Helensburgh train to westerton and then change.

 

[Scotrail84]

I'll miss the bells, I've managed to get some nice archive shots of them though. By the way, is your avatar taken from the rear cab heading down the hill into NBW?

No but i am in the back cab somewhere in Central Scotland.

 

[Eng274]

[/B]


No but i am in the back cab somewhere in Central Scotland.

Is it somewhere on the Alloa Line?

 

[Tracked]

I have been on a 321 only once (15 mins wakefield to leeds) but i sat in the pantograph coach and it really was deafening. Next time i will sit in an end carriage. My ears were buzzing when i got off. The 333's on the other hand are much quieter.

I use them fairly often, there's a buzzing noise in the pantograph coach but I've never known it be that loud, though I prefer the 333's which we don't get to Doncaster.

That being said, I'd rather still have the 307's, I liked the noise they made, which was a bit louder but nowhere near deafening.

 

[me123]

I'm slightly disappointed that I won't be on a 320 for a while - they stopped running any to Milngavie, the Edinburgh trains are 334's and the Lanark/Motherwell are all 318. So if I want to enjoy a nice 320, I have to get a Helensburgh train to westerton and then change.

320s will be doing a number of services on the Argyle Line soon, including some Milngavie runs. Indeed, these have already started! You probably won't get as many 320s as before, but you'll still get quite a few each day running to Central Low Level. As for getting a Helensburgh to Westerton... don't you mean a Balloch? The Helensburgh services are now almost exclusively 334s, and they only call at Westerton on a Sunday (or once in the rush hour Monday-Friday).

I won't miss the 322s. Ghastly trains IMHO. The refurbishment was, frankly, criminal. I loathe all trains from that family to be honest, including 320s. Cramped and uncomfortable. The 3+2 seating is an absolute joke, and sadly the 320 refurb has done/will do nothing to improve this (although the ambiance will undoubtedly be much nicer). I can only hope that Northern will make the trains look presentable. Of course, a ghastly train is much better than no train when you're looking for capacity!

 

[tbtc]

I can only hope that Northern will make the trains look presentable. Of course, a ghastly train is much better than no train when you're looking for capacity!

Basically thats how desperate we are.

Given the reliability problems that the 321s have, and the logistical problems of maintaining only three of them (plus the fact that since only a 321 can rescue a 321, if one or two fails then they are all capped)... its a case of needs must.

For all the criticism of these 322s (and, rightly so, given the Scotrail alternatives) they will be very welcome here

 

[ainsworth74]

Given the reliability problems that the 321s have, and the logistical problems of maintaining only three of them (plus the fact that since only a 321 can rescue a 321, if one or two fails then they are all capped)... its a case of needs must.

It's a crying shame that they didn't order some extra 333s to replace the 321s so that Neville Hill could have just one type of EMU as that would have simplified both maintenance and made sure that their were plenty of units around that could rescue each other.

 

[387star]

Sure but at least now there's a decent pool of 320 and 321/9 (basically the same thing) instead of just three. Speaking from the enthusiasts point of view which I know is probably worthless in the grand scheme of things at least it maintains unit diversity!

What I find interesting is FSR or the ROSCO refurbished them to a high standard specifically for the North Berwick line ie cycle provision is generous? I presume they will not recieve another major refurb

Many trains have 3+2 so are the 320 series more crampt than a 377/4 centre coach?

 

[tbtc]

It's a crying shame that they didn't order some extra 333s to replace the 321s so that Neville Hill could have just one type of EMU as that would have simplified both maintenance and made sure that their were plenty of units around that could rescue each other.

They are such good units, its a real shame there aren't more in the UK (ignoring the 332s, which aren't really run by a TOC, to split hairs for a moment), and especially a shame that there's not more in Leeds - the 321s would have a good home at NXEA/ FCC (etc) whilst having a bigger pool of 333s would make life so much simpler
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Sure but at least now there's a decent pool of 320 and 321/9 (basically the same thing) instead of just three. Speaking from the enthusiasts point of view which I know is probably worthless in the grand scheme of things at least it maintains unit diversity!

What I find interesting is FSR or the ROSCO refurbished them to a high standard specifically for the North Berwick line ie cycle provision is generous? I presume they will not recieve another major refurb

Many trains have 3+2 so are the 320 series more crampt than a 377/4 centre coach?

I'm not complaining about 3+2 seats, beggers can't be choosers when it comes to such things.

And, yeah, there's now going to be enough 321/322s to have some critical mass, meaning we shouldn't see the entire "fleet" of them rested due to a fault with one unit.

 

[150222]

I think in a past thread someone suggested that the 460's should be converted to ac power by swapping the panto coach on the 458's. This would allow 332's to go to northern or elsewhere.

 

[MCR247]

But then what would Northern do with them?

 

[Scotrail84]

Is it somewhere on the Alloa Line?

No i dont sign Alloa

 

[IanXC]

But then what would Northern do with them?

Would the difficulties of fitting local services on the approaches to Manchester be reduced with 100mph EMUs rather than pacers? Clearly there are only limited relevant electrified routes

 

[me123]

Basically thats how desperate we are.

Given the reliability problems that the 321s have, and the logistical problems of maintaining only three of them (plus the fact that since only a 321 can rescue a 321, if one or two fails then they are all capped)... its a case of needs must.

For all the criticism of these 322s (and, rightly so, given the Scotrail alternatives) they will be very welcome here

Of course! I'm sure there will be criticism of the trains down in England when they get there, but I think most people would rather have a ghastly 4-car 322 than a 2-car pacer in the morning rush hour!

 

[MCR247]

Would the difficulties of fitting local services on the approaches to Manchester be reduced with 100mph EMUs rather than pacers? Clearly there are only limited relevant electrified routes

I doubt it'd make much difference but there still isn't anywhere for them to be used?

 

[IanXC]

I doubt it'd make much difference but there still isn't anywhere for them to be used?

My knowledge of Manchester is no where near good enough to even attempt to answer that one!

 

[ainsworth74]

But then what would Northern do with them?

Well there are in total 8 321/322s at Northern currently so if this plan were to go through and Northern could get the 332s I would suggest putting them with Nevile Hill and cascading the 321/322s away to another operator (NXEA or FCC) whilst using the the the new units on the Doncaster - Leeds shuttle and the rest on the electrified WY routes.

Just an off the cuff thought so feel free to shoot it down in flames

 

[MCR247]

You could send the 9 4 car 332s to Neville Hill, and use the 5 5 car sets to replace 360/2s which could go to NXEA.

Jeez, they'd do well in this

 

[ainsworth74]

You could send the 9 4 car 332s to Neville Hill, and use the 5 5 car sets to replace 360/2s which could go to NXEA.

I hadn't thought of that and there are exactly enough units to do it.

Jeez, they'd do well in this

They really would wouldn't they I have it as being an extra 57 carriages

 

[MCR247]

And then IF DfT decided to go ahead building another centre car for 450/5s, you could use 5 360/2 carriages and refurbish them, then you'd only need to build 22, and it would put the 360s in line with the NXEA ones

 

[150222]

The 4 car 332's could go to neville hill with the 321/322's going to longsight to boost the 323 fleet which is too small and therefore stop pacers running under the wires to hazel grove and others.