Class 321 storage/scrapping

[Suraggu]

If this is going to be cancelled, it’s always the Thursday.

Huh?

 

[DBS92042]

Huh?

These scrap moves have mostly run only on Tuesday and Thursday.

And this Thursday (01/05) there's currently a light engine from Newport Docks to Derby RTC so looks like a path from Wembley will appear shortly

 

[Suraggu]

These scrap moves have mostly run only on Tuesday and Thursday.

And this Thursday (01/05) there's currently a light engine from Newport Docks to Derby RTC so looks like a path from Wembley will appear shortly

Perhaps…

But also on 30/04 there is this path to Ely SF…

Realtime Trains | 0L46 0845 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings | 30/04/2025

Real-time train running information for 0L46 0845 departure from Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings on 30/04/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[50002Superb]

Are there any 321s at Ely?

I didn’t think there was.

 

[Suraggu]

Are there any 321s at Ely?

I didn’t think there was.

Of course there aren’t any 321’s at Ely. Just because a Newport Docks - Derby RTC path is in the system doesn’t mean there will be a Wembley - Newport Docks move.

You cannot just assume with there will be a 321 scrap move on Thursday because of one single STP path. With that headcode 0M57, it is a ROG move. So it could be either a 321 move or a 465/466 move subject to whatever appears in the system tomorrow.

 

[50002Superb]

Of course there aren’t any 321’s at Ely. Just because a Newport Docks - Derby RTC path is in the system doesn’t mean there will be a Wembley - Newport Docks move.

You cannot just assume with there will be a 321 scrap move on Thursday because of one single STP path. With that headcode 0M57, it is a ROG move. So it could be either a 321 move or a 465/466 move subject to whatever appears in the system tomorrow.

I didn’t assume anything.

Was just pointing out that there are no 321s at Ely in response to your post.

 

[Suraggu]

These scrap moves have mostly run only on Tuesday and Thursday.

And this Thursday (01/05) there's currently a light engine from Newport Docks to Derby RTC so looks like a path from Wembley will appear shortly

No 321 scrap move this week. Thursdays move is ex Ely with a 465/466.

Realtime Trains | 5Q76 0858 Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 01/05/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q76 0858 departure from Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 01/05/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Cumberland Gap]

321 311 / 321 307 quick video here

Oh Dear, No Tail Lamps

 

[Busman]

Does it matter? It is money that got Greater Anglia customers better trains for around five years, and saw them meet their accessibility requirements. One of the benefits of leasing is that it is Eversholt who have borne the loss, and not the railway.

Yeah exactly, just 5 years. The 321s were not in a bad state to warrant such an extensive and wasteful project knowing that new trains were on their way, if it was life extensive for another 15-20 years, perfectly understandable.

Irrespective of whoever borne's the loss, it was a waste of money. And now they're all being scrapped.

You cannot justify that.

 

[43096]

Yeah exactly, just 5 years. The 321s were not in a bad state to warrant such an extensive and wasteful project knowing that new trains were on their way, if it was life extensive for another 15-20 years, perfectly understandable.

Irrespective of whoever borne's the loss, it was a waste of money. And now they're all being scrapped.

You cannot justify that.

Very easy being an armchair critic when you don’t have all the facts. I’d suggest you look at post 2531 as the timings of when things happened was key.

 

[Northerngirl]

The thing is, even in a perfect world, was there ever a business case that kept them running for much longer with another operator, the only potential i could think of is northern or scotrail and even thoes 2 were in the process of getting new trains, and i find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have turned to rust soon anyway.

 

[skyhigh]

The thing is, even in a perfect world, was there ever a business case that kept them running for much longer with another operator, the only potential i could think of is northern or scotrail and even thoes 2 were in the process of getting new trains, and i find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have turned to rust soon anyway.

Again, you're not looking at the situation as it was at the time. Northern were recieving 331s, but it was still planned for 319s to be a permanent part of the fleet with them losing all the 323s. The refurbished 321s would have been a big upgrade. The railway was also expanding with a general shortage of quality stock - with potential electrification they could have found homes. There was plenty of potential for the fleet.

Plus the 720s hadn't been ordered, so it was entirely possible that GA would choose to retain them rather than order new units.

 

[Wivenswold]

As @skyhigh has rightly pointed out, while the Renatus programme looks like a complete waste of money the decision was taken by Eversholt to make a start on ensuring their fleet was compliant with changes to accessibility laws that were fast approaching. Also this was around the time that there was hope that the electrification plans would extend to more rural routes with an end to diesel traction by the mid-2030s.

At the time, it was more than reasonable to assume that existing BR era electric stock would have future lives somewhere in the country. I seem to recall 30 units was an "initial batch" with a hope that all of GAs 317s and 321s would be significantly refurbished in time for the 2020 deadline.

In the end the Renatus units turned-out to be a precious commodity for GA with the delays to the 720s and a need to ditch the expensive leasing costs of 379s at the time. Personally, I hated them. They felt nothing like the 321s I travelled on for 30 years, the PA was too loud, no USB just plug sockets and the seats too hard. I was not looking forward to all of our 321s getting that treatment and while I missed the old 321s, the 720s feel like a big upgrade.

 

[Busman]

Very easy being an armchair critic when you don’t have all the facts. I’d suggest you look at post 2531 as the timings of when things happened was key.

I have the facts chief, in fact, I was aware of it at the time.

And you don't have to be an 'armchair critic' as you put it, to know it was wasting millions on an extensive refurbishment when it was very well known at the time, brand new trains were being ordered.

So my original point remains.

And let's be honest, what's happened to those trains from that project?

I rest my case.

 

[Class15]

I have the facts chief, in fact, I was aware of it at the time.

And you don't have to be an 'armchair critic' as you put it, to know it was wasting millions on an extensive refurbishment when it was very well known at the time, brand new trains were being ordered.

So my original point remains.

And let's be honest, what's happened to those trains from that project?

I rest my case.

This precisely. I agree completely.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Very easy being an armchair critic when you don’t have all the facts. I’d suggest you look at post 2531 as the timings of when things happened was key.

What makes you so sure you know anymore about his position as I do about yours?

 

[43096]

I have the facts chief, in fact, I was aware of it at the time.

And you don't have to be an 'armchair critic' as you put it, to know it was wasting millions on an extensive refurbishment when it was very well known at the time, brand new trains were being ordered.

So my original point remains.

And let's be honest, what's happened to those trains from that project?

I rest my case.

That's called the benefit of hindsight.

Eversholt would not have authorised those 30 units if they thought it was a dead duck at the time. Renatus contracts were placed before the Greater Anglia tender result was known and the railway was very different back then. It was pre-Covid and the collapse in demand (particularly London commuting) was unforseeable at that time. Even with a total fleet replacement at GA, Eversholt would have seen the continuing demand for more trains and that would be factored into decision making.

 

[Class15]

That's called the benefit of hindsight.

Eversholt would not have authorised those 30 units if they thought it was a dead duck at the time. Renatus contracts were placed before the Greater Anglia tender result was known and the railway was very different back then. It was pre-Covid and the collapse in demand (particularly London commuting) was unforseeable at that time. Even with a total fleet replacement at GA, Eversholt would have seen the continuing demand for more trains and that would be factored into decision making.

GA were about to get a long term contract. There was never any chance they weren’t going to replace the 321s. Who else would have taken the 321s? It’s not hindsight.

 

[sad1e]

321327 and 321329 are still in Wembley yard. Any ideas on whenever their drags will be ?
If anyone wants to get a photo of them it's just about possible to get a photo of 327 through the fence on pendilino way (see attached)

 

[sad1e]

Any ideas on when 321327 and 329 are getting sent to scrap, at the moment they both seem quite buried behind 350/2s in Wembley. you can just about see 327 but not 329.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 May 2025 ==

Any ideas ?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Still a couple of 321s in Wembley, Renatus and non, as of 07/06.

 

[Foggycorner]

Instead of sending for scrap they should be sent north to Kilmarnock for conversion to 320/4 and help out with spares

 

[D365]

Instead of sending for scrap they should be sent north to Kilmarnock for conversion to 320/4 and help out with spares

Eversholt did not reach a commercial agreement with any train operator for the Renatus units.

 

[F Great Eastern]

As @skyhigh has rightly pointed out, while the Renatus programme looks like a complete waste of money the decision was taken by Eversholt to make a start on ensuring their fleet was compliant with changes to accessibility laws that were fast approaching. Also this was around the time that there was hope that the electrification plans would extend to more rural routes with an end to diesel traction by the mid-2030s.

At the time, it was more than reasonable to assume that existing BR era electric stock would have future lives somewhere in the country. I seem to recall 30 units was an "initial batch" with a hope that all of GAs 317s and 321s would be significantly refurbished in time for the 2020 deadline.

In the end the Renatus units turned-out to be a precious commodity for GA with the delays to the 720s and a need to ditch the expensive leasing costs of 379s at the time. Personally, I hated them. They felt nothing like the 321s I travelled on for 30 years, the PA was too loud, no USB just plug sockets and the seats too hard. I was not looking forward to all of our 321s getting that treatment and while I missed the old 321s, the 720s feel like a big upgrade.

Went on one of them in standard class and one of them in standard class. First class was so bad that I had to move to standard class for a better experience.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Still a couple of 321s in Wembley, Renatus and non, as of 07/06.

There was at least one just visible behind the Alstom West Coast Traincare operation at Wembley yesterday - not ID'd though

 

[sad1e]

There was at least one just visible behind the Alstom West Coast Traincare operation at Wembley yesterday - not ID'd though

The visible 321 is 321327. 321329 is also in there albeit hidden behind 350/2s and stored wagons at the moment

 

[Robin Edwards]

The visible 321 is 321327. 321329 is also in there albeit hidden behind 350/2s and stored wagons at the moment

Yes - those are all in Wembley Yard. As of yesterday, there was another barely visible but tucked behind the Alstom depot immediately south of Wembley Yard

 

[sad1e]

Yes - those are all in Wembley Yard. As of yesterday, there was another barely visible but tucked behind the Alstom depot immediately south of Wembley Yard

That one is 321338 owned by varamis rail, it's been there for ages. Sorry for the confusion I thought you were talking about the ones in wembley yard

 

[Robin Edwards]

That one is 321338 owned by varamis rail, it's been there for ages. Sorry for the confusion I thought you were talking about the ones in wembley yard

No need to apologise @sad1e - I'm still wanting 321428 which is Varamis as well

 

[sad1e]

No need to apologise @sad1e - I'm still wanting 321428 which is Varamis as well

428 was sighted in wembley yard on the 6th so it very well may be in there too

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jun 2025 ==

Sightings of 321428