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Class 319

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YorkshireBear

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I don't recall suburban services to Newbury being worked by HST's, as for the Porterbrook document yes I have seen that, but that's only an example of what could be achieved, it doesn't mean to say it will happen.

What doesn't help the 319's and the 320/321's is that most of them haven't had a really decent refurb since built, and both the interior and overall trains were built to a somewhat dated design in the first place

The reason new EMUs are being considered for the Thames Valley is mainly because NR piped up and said to make good use of paths we really need 110mph stock and the 319s are not capable of this. At the moment nobody really knows what is going down on Thames Valley EMUs.

I am still confident the units well get a full refurb in due course. However i think they will enter service with Northern with only a refresh because we need to get capacity and the refurbs will come once we have more than the 6 units we look like having in December 2014.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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once we have more than the 6 units we look like having in December 2014.

6 units won't go very far on services out of Lime St.
Depending on new journey times and turnrounds the Wigan services will need 3 units (2tph, 90 minute cycle time), and Manchester Vic/Warrington 4 units (2tph, 120 minute cycle time).
That still leaves the airport train.
Maybe the 7-8? spare 317s are coming as well.
 

YorkshireBear

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6 units won't go very far on services out of Lime St.
Depending on new journey times and turnrounds the Wigan services will need 3 units (2tph, 90 minute cycle time), and Manchester Vic/Warrington 4 units (2tph, 120 minute cycle time).
That still leaves the airport train.
Maybe the 7-8? spare 317s are coming as well.

Wigan services? I must have missed these can you please expand :)

Yes well they must be.... Otherwise there is certainly not enough units. Of course Northern will get the blame but it is all governments fault.
 

12CSVT

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Just entering this debate as a 68 year old forum member who was only 12 years of age when the first of the Class 304 slam-door stock was delivered to Longsight depot in 1957. In my middle years, I still remember the 4-car units with a small first class (three facing three) section and a corridor-accessed toilet from that area. These units eventually ran as three-car units. Can someone more knowledgeable than I inform me when these last ran in the Manchester area.

If I remember correctly the last 304s were withdrawn late 1994 / early 1995.

305s (displaced from the Great Eastern) were in service in the Manchester area for a few years after that.
 

Class377/5

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6 units won't go very far on services out of Lime St.
Depending on new journey times and turnrounds the Wigan services will need 3 units (2tph, 90 minute cycle time), and Manchester Vic/Warrington 4 units (2tph, 120 minute cycle time).
That still leaves the airport train.
Maybe the 7-8? spare 317s are coming as well.

DfT have stated that 13 units are required for the second phase.

Is the 317's confirmed tho as so far all I've sent is rumor.
 

D7666

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The reason new EMUs are being considered for the Thames Valley is mainly because NR piped up and said to make good use of paths we really need 110mph stock and the 319s are not capable of this. At the moment nobody really knows what is going down on Thames Valley EMUs.

I am still confident the units well get a full refurb in due course.


I still suggest something else will happen.

We have already seen ... as you rightly post ... 319s for TV unlikely now because of 110 mph.

Which proves plans change. Nothing is set in stone.

I suggest also the north west will get new EMU, possibly for political reasons, its just still being worked on.

My theory is 319s will be refurbished, not as extensively as was predicted, they won't get air-con for example, and they will stay, as a homogenised fleet, in the London area, possibly based at Hornsey and/or Ilford, and will be used to both replace whatever 313/315 that do not get mopped up by Thameslink (GN) and Crossrail servcie and stock cascades, and to supplement the 321 fleet.

319s are fatigued - don't forget they run a 24/7/363 service, far more intense over whole life cycle than similar classes that have a comparatively luxury life with idle time between peak and off peak, whereas most TL units stay out all day and all night. I suspect when the leasco starts to take one apart as a refurblement pilot they'll find more trouble than they expect.



PS
Yes it was me had that letter published in Modern Railways suggesting using 319s for the Bournemouth line when they do the AC bit between Basingstoke and Southampton; however that was tongue in cheek, not serious, however MR published anyway, the editors were amused by it.


--
Nick
 
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JamesRowden

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I still suggest something else will happen.

We have already seen ... as you rightly post ... 319s for TV unlikely now because of 110 mph.

Which proves plans change. Nothing is set in stone.

I suggest also the north west will get new EMU, possibly for political reasons, its just still being worked on.

My theory is 319s will be refurbished, not as extensively as was predicted, they won't get air-con for example, and they will stay, as a homogenised fleet, in the London area, possibly based at Hornsey and/or Ilford, and will be used to both replace whatever 313/315 that do not get mopped up by Thameslink (GN) and Crossrail servcie and stock cascades, and to supplement the 321 fleet.

319s are fatigued - don't forget they run a 24/7/363 service, far more intense over whole life cycle than similar classes that have a comparatively luxury life with idle time between peak and off peak, whereas most TL units stay out all day and all night. I suspect when the leasco starts to take one apart as a refurblement pilot they'll find more trouble than they expect.

--
Nick

What about reducing Cross Country's loss making by operating Bournemouth-Manchester services using 319s as soon as Basingstoke-Coventry is electrfied. :lol:
 

D7666

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What about reducing Cross Country's loss making by operating Bournemouth-Manchester services using 319s as soon as Basingstoke-Coventry is electrfied. :lol:

All happening around about the same time was SWT storing 458s (before the 442 reshuffle came about), VXC withdrawing from the regular interval Brighton XC route, and CSC/SC whoever they were that week having to cutback the Brighton Rugby service and never get the original aim of New St.

I did suggest on another forum the whole lot be combined - hourly 8car 458 XC operated Brighton Croydon Olympia WCML West Mids North West service , obviously with dual voltage activated on the 458s, reseated 2+2 style like 460s.
:):D


--
Nick
 

WatcherZero

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Wigan services? I must have missed these can you please expand :)

Yes well they must be.... Otherwise there is certainly not enough units. Of course Northern will get the blame but it is all governments fault.

Liverpool LS to Wigan NW services, supposed to go electric before Dec 2014.
 

YorkshireBear

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Liverpool LS to Wigan NW services, supposed to go electric before Dec 2014.

Oh those ones! Sorry my head got confused as i didn't think there were going to be Man-Wigan stoppers.

Do these stoppers exist now? Or are they mostly through to Blackpool.
 

edwin_m

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There are stoppers from Manchester to Wigan Wallgate via either Bolton or Atherton, which will continue to be diesel operated. Some go through to Southport or Kirkby. Until this December there is no regular service between Manchester and Wigan via Parkside.
 

WatcherZero

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Oh those ones! Sorry my head got confused as i didn't think there were going to be Man-Wigan stoppers.

Do these stoppers exist now? Or are they mostly through to Blackpool.

There is a twice hourly Liv-Wigan stopper and the hourly express to Preston/Blackpool.
 

Manchester77

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1 - 319361
2 - 319362
3 - 319363
4 - 319364
5 - 319365
6 - 319366
7 - 319367
8 - 319369
9 - 319371
10 - 319374
11 - 319375
12 - 319376
13 - 319377
14 - 319378

Off wnxx in the order they will go I believe
 
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user15681

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I'll add the date that each unit goes off lease, seeing that it's public now.

1 - 319361 01/05/2014
2 - 319362 01/08/2014
3 - 319363. 01/09/2014
4 - 319364. 01/10/2014
5 - 319365. 01/02/2015
6 - 319366. 01/02/2015
7 - 319367. 01/03/2015
8 - 319369. 01/03/2015
9 - 319371. 01/04/2015
10 - 319374. 01/04/2015
11 - 319375. 01/07/2015
12 - 319376. 01/07/2015
13 - 319377. 01/07/2015
14 - 319378. 01/07/2015

Off wnxx in the order they will go I believe
 
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