Class 317 withdrawals.

[XCTurbostar]

Has the new home for the 379s been confirmed anywhere?
If the 317s are PRM compliant and have better mileage per overhaul, (cheaper lease too!) it makes sense to lose the 379s first since they have life after GA.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The poor availability of class 379s helps too. There are typically eight pairs of class 317s out on weekdays. So another eight class 720s on West Anglia will finish them off. Hopefully there will be some sort of farewell bash.

The 379s ought to be delivering at 375/377 levels of performance but have fallen back a fair bit according to golden spanners lists in MR this month mind you 317's have a lower MTIN but pretty unchanged over the last 12mths so haven't deteriorated to same extent. I've always though its odd when im over WA side that there are so few 379's out they really ought to have been able to put out 13 pairs daily and seen off most of the 317's but hasn't happened and long may it continue.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Having travelled on countless 5-720s on West Anglia routes (yes weekday peaks included) since their introduction, which all seem to have plenty of seats at the moment, and then having also travelled on a fair few of the undeniably grotty remaining 317s, where the seat cushions are all on the floor, I would personally rather they just piled more 5-720s on and perhaps a few reduced formation 379s than keep the 317s any longer.

 

[jon0844]

Has the new home for the 379s been confirmed anywhere?

Great Northern will get them I believe, allowing some 387s to return to Southern. I don't know when (clearly GA has issues with new trains) but have heard the planning is already underway.

Fortunately the current situation probably means there's no rush.

 

[Wivenswold]

They'll be a big upgrade on the 387s and 700s on the longer journeys on the GN network.

 

[43102EMR]

Great Northern will get them I believe, allowing some 387s to return to Southern. I don't know when (clearly GA has issues with new trains) but have heard the planning is already underway.

Fortunately the current situation probably means there's no rush.

Transferring them shouldn’t be too difficult either, given they virtually run the same routes as Great Northern with some stabled at Cambridge Sidings (albeit taking a different route out of Cambridge into Liverpool Street)

 

[mic505]

Great Northern will get them I believe, allowing some 387s to return to Southern. I don't know when (clearly GA has issues with new trains) but have heard the planning is already underway.

Fortunately the current situation probably means there's no rush.

And for Southern to bin their 313's.

 

[Wivenswold]

And for Southern to bin their 313's.

That'll divide opinion on here. I'm on the "Rid of them" side of the fence, never liked the PEPs though.

 

[Techniquest]

That'll divide opinion on here. I'm on the "Rid of them" side of the fence, never liked the PEPs though.

I'm sort of divided on the 313s being replaced, as I like them but it is time for a more modern fleet on the Coastway services.

 

[43102EMR]

https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1478703567880036354?s=21

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jan 2022 ==

According to this tweet, 379s into store this month… guessing the 317s will be sticking around a little bit longer then?

 

[Bikeman78]

https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1478703567880036354?s=21

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jan 2022 ==

First 379s into store this month… guessing the 317s will be sticking around a little bit longer then?

If the 317s are cheaper to lease then it makes sense as it will keep the treasury happy. Though with drastic cuts mooted next week, it won't be long before the 720s can cover everything.

 

[YSTrains]

First 379s into store this month

Where? I assume this is the beginning for them to be transferred to Great Northern.

 

[43102EMR]

Where? I assume this is the beginning for them to be transferred to Great Northern.

Not a clue - was hoping someone on here would know in all honesty as Clinnick didn’t provide much information…

 

[D365]

Where? I assume this is the beginning for them to be transferred to Great Northern.

Not a clue - was hoping someone on here would know in all honesty as Clinnick didn’t provide much information…

Nothing public yet. This forum wouldn't be the place to break the news.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

For all the comments about Great Northern, nothing has still been officially confirmed. I really am skeptical.

 

[warwickshire]

All we can do is wait and see what happens or does happen. Stranger things or even the opposite can happen.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

For all the comments about Great Northern, nothing has still been officially confirmed. I really am skeptical.

That’s because nothing lease wise has been signed yet, doesn’t mean discussions aren’t ongoing.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

That’s because nothing lease wise has been signed yet, doesn’t mean discussions aren’t ongoing.

Its pretty obvious that stock needs are going to be depressed for some years if not permanently impaired by the disappearance of at least the high peak so DofT don't need to rush to enter into new leases not as if the market is short of units currently. You never know the lessors may cut a favourable deal.

 

[bramling]

For all the comments about Great Northern, nothing has still been officially confirmed. I really am skeptical.

It hasn’t been announced because the terms haven’t been finalised. Barring an unexpected spanner in the works it’s pretty certain to happen, though.

The bigger unknown is how thinly or thickly spread the displaced 387s will go. Losing the 313s would seem highly likely, the question is whether they decide to push things further and see off the 455s. My personal view is I don’t think they have the numbers to do that, but it could happen if they butcher the rest of the timetable.

 

[yorkie]

This thread is to discuss news regarding class 317 withdrawals.

To discuss news regarding other classes please use or create alternative threads in this section; for speculation please use the Speculative Discussion section.

Thanks

 

[Mikey C]

My first trip on a 317 for a while today, as I don't often taken trains on the WAML.

In case it was my final 317 journey, I opened and closed the letterbox window opening for old times sake

 

[Railperf]

How many 317s left i service now? Is there a list?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

How many 317s left i service now? Is there a list?

Thirty-four, I believe. With thirty-three 321s, five 322s and if the fact that no 379s are out today with the lease due to expire in February (I think) means they’re done, that’s it for the legacy fleet.

 

[Bikeman78]

How many 317s left i service now? Is there a list?

See post #614; nothing has changed as far as I'm aware. There are 27 PRM units, four at Harwich, the rest have all worked this year.

 

[Railperf]

See post #614; nothing has changed as far as I'm aware. There are 27 PRM units, four at Harwich, the rest have all worked this year.

So approc 9 pairs then.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So approc 9 pairs then.

Eleven with a spare if you ignore the four at Harwich.

 

[Railperf]

Looks like only 2 pairs in use off-peak on Hertford East today.

 

[Jturner98]

Looks like only 2 pairs in use off-peak on Hertford East today.

There was an 8 carriage set stabled at Hertford East when I was there on Thursday

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jan 2022 ==

given the rapid decline of 379 I suppose these will soldier know for a while to come. I know they are needed for Hertford East. I saw a 5 carriage 720 arrive at Tottenham Hale on Thursday going to Hertford East, to say it was cosy was an understatement

 

[Jim]

With a timetable increase today, more sets out. Seen reported elsewhere:
317515 317885
2D51 06:27 Hertford East London Liv St
1O94 07:23 London Liv St Broxbourne
2O95 08:00 Broxbourne London Liv St
5S96 08:52 ECS to Bishops Stortford
2S45 16:15 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2O48 17:17 Stratford Hertford East
2O51 18:25 Hertford East Broxbourne
2O71 19:10 Broxbourne Stratford
2M54 19:46 Stratford Meridian Water
2M55 20:08 Meridian Water Stratford
2S58 20:30 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S67 21:47 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2M66 22:46 Stratford Meridian Water
2M67 23:08 Meridian Water Stratford



317341 317507
2O02 05:42 London Liv St Hertford East
2D53 06:57 Hertford East London Liv St
1O96 07:53 London Liv St Broxbourne
2O97 08:30 Broxbourne London Liv St
5O98 09:23 ECS to Hertford East
2O45 16:39 Hertford East London Liv St
2D56 17:41 London Liv St Hertford East
2O03 18:39 Hertford East London Liv St
2O08 19:42 London Liv St Hertford East
2O11 20:39 Hertford East London Liv St
2O16 21:42 London Liv St Hertford East
2O19 22:39 Hertford East London Liv St
2O24 23:42 London Liv St Hertford East

317512 317882
2S91 06:32 Bishops Stortford London Liv St
2O10 07:42 London Liv St Hertford East
2O13 08:39 Hertford East London Liv St
2O18 09:42 London Liv St Hertford East
2O21 10:39 Hertford East London Liv St
2O26 11:42 London Liv St Hertford East
2O29 12:39 Hertford East London Liv St
2O34 13:42 London Liv St Hertford East
2O37 14:39 Hertford East London Liv St
2O42 15:42 London Liv St Hertford East
3H50 17:03 ECS to London Liv St
2H50 18:13 London Liv St Cambridge

317337 317506
2H02 05:58 London Liv St Cambridge
1H89 07:47 Cambridge London Liv St
2H20 10:28 London Liv St Cambridge North
2H31 12:13 Cambridge North London Liv St
2H34 13:58 London Liv St Cambridge North
2H45 15:43 Cambridge North London Liv St
2O92 17:26 London Liv St Broxbourne
1O51 18:05 Broxbourne London Liv St
2D60 18:41 London Liv St Hertford East
2O07 19:39 Hertford East London Liv St
2O12 20:42 London Liv St Hertford East
2O15 21:39 Hertford East London Liv St
2O20 22:42 London Liv St Hertford East
2D77 23:39 Hertford East London Liv St

317342 317884
2S03 05:30 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2O46 06:36 Stratford Hertford East
2O63 07:47 Hertford East Stratford
2M10 08:47 Stratford Meridian Water
2M11 09:08 Meridian Water Stratford
2S14 09:30 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S23 10:47 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2M22 11:46 Stratford Meridian Water
2M23 12:08 Meridian Water Stratford
2S26 12:30 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S35 13:47 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2M34 14:46 Stratford Meridian Water
2M35 15:08 Meridian Water Stratford
2S38 15:30 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S47 16:43 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2S48 17:47 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S57 19:15 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2M56 20:16 Stratford Meridian Water
2M57 20:38 Meridian Water Stratford
2S60 21:00 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S69 22:15 Bishops Stortford Stratford

317347 317502
2S07 06:56 Harlow Town Stratford
2M06 07:47 Stratford Meridian Water
2M07 08:08 Meridian Water Stratford
2S10 08:34 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S19 09:47 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2M18 10:46 Stratford Meridian Water
2M19 11:08 Meridian Water Stratford
2S22 11:30 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S31 12:47 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2M30 13:46 Stratford Meridian Water
2M31 14:08 Meridian Water Stratford
2S34 14:30 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S43 15:47 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2S44 16:47 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S53 18:15 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2S54 19:30 Stratford Bishops Stortford
2S63 20:47 Bishops Stortford Stratford
2M62 21:46 Stratford Meridian Water
2M63 22:08 Meridian Water Stratford
2S66 22:30 Stratford Bishops Stortford

317881 317886
2H01 04:48 Cambridge London Liv St
2H04 06:28 London Liv St Cambridge
1H91 08:18 Cambridge London Liv St
2H18 09:58 London Liv St Cambridge North
2H29 11:53 Cambridge North London Liv St
2H32 13:28 London Liv St Cambridge North
2H43 15:13 Cambridge North London Liv St
2O90 16:56 London Liv St Broxbourne
1O97 17:35 Broxbourne London Liv St
2O96 18:26 London Liv St Broxbourne
1O57 19:05 Broxbourne London Liv St

317344 317348
2H00 05:28 London Liv St Cambridge
2H11 07:20 Cambridge London Liv St
2H14 08:58 London Liv St Cambridge North
2H25 10:53 Cambridge North London Liv St
2H28 12:28 London Liv St Cambridge North
2H39 14:13 Cambridge North London Liv St
2H42 15:58 London Liv St Ely
2H57 18:42 Cambridge North London Liv St
2H60 20:28 London Liv St Cambridge North
2H91 22:10 Cambridge North Cambridge

 

[CDM]

In case it was my final 317 journey, I opened and closed the letterbox window opening for old times sake

And after closing them, as always, it made no noticeable difference to the amount of cold drafts getting into the saloon