Class 317 - Onboard Telephone

[McDontrains]

Evening all,

During my luxurious commute home this evening I noticed the attached sticker - did these units really have a payphone on board, how did they connect to the network on the move?

Many thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite a variety of stock had them, Mk3s and 158s for two. They were I believe based on analogue mobiles.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Quite a variety of stock had them, Mk3s and 158s for two. They were I believe based on analogue mobiles.

Mk2f RFB's also.

 

[Tempest3K]

125 Group found some old analogue phone kit in the MK3 RFM when sorting out the kitchen electrics

 

[Doctor Fegg]

And 166s - you can still see the 'booths' in the vestibules where they were.

 

[McDontrains]

Interesting, thanks all. Does anyone have any media of these booths? Only been commuting for 6 years but never come across these before!

 

[47271]

The very first mobile call I made was from a payphone aboard a brand new 158 (the unit will still have the same seat cushions 24 years later) between Dundee and Aberdeen in 1991.

As I recall the telephone was a standard BT Phonecard unit as fitted to many kiosks at the time, presumably as Neil says with a Vodafone or Cellnet connection of the era - you needed one of those green cards that the phone burned or stamped out units on the topside. The train phone fair shot through the card. It was an expensive chat.

Analogue mobiles were great in rural Scotland - voice coverage still hasn't been bettered even today in my view.

The problem I had with my own analogue mobile a few years later was that someone cloned it when I was using it at Euston one evening. My next bill informed me of repeated lengthy calls to Rochdale, a town I've never been to or know anyone living in. I experienced an enforced upgrade to digital at this point.

 

[driver9000]

The phones took BT Phonecards and used the BT Cellnet network. I used them a few times and the cost was higher than normal payphones and the signal could be patchy. Some Northern 158s still have the mounting point for the phone at the inner end of the vehicle.

 

[Helvellyn]

Off the top of my head the following had phones: -

• Mark 1 Restaurant Buffets (RBRs) used by Intercity Anglia
• Mark 1 Miniature Buffets (RMBs) used by Intercity CrossCountry
• Mark 2F First Miniature Buffets (RFBs) used by Intercity CrossCountry
• Mark 2F Lounge Cars (RLOs) used by Intercity West Coast Sleepers
• Mark 3 catering vehicles in all HST sets
• Mark 3 Trailer Firsts (TFs) - one out of two per set used by Intercity Great Western
• Mark 3B First Opens (FOs) 11083-11101
• Mark 4 First Opens (FOs) - one out of two per set
• Class 158 DMUs - one per set
• Class 159 DMUs - one per set
• Class 166 DMUs - one per set
• Class 365 EMUs - one per set
• Class 442 EMUs - one per set
• Class 488/2 EMUS - one per set (in the TFOLH)

I also think some Class 309 Clacton EMUs got payphones.

You could tell the Mark 3 TFs and Mark 3B FOs that had a payphone, because the split half-width window behind the normal luggage rack was replaced by a fully frosted glass half-width window (i.e. no metal bar running horizontally across the middle) where the phone booth was.

If I recall, the last four/five digits of the phone number were usually the coach number the phone was located in.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

You could buy phone cards on the train. On a HST truro bound in 1988 i bought a BR Intercity phone card. It had a picture of a brand new at the time Mk4 DVT and used it on the train to call my mum and dad to tell them what time the train would be in. The card used at a rate of 20p for 10 seconds iirc and the call cost me £1.60 of the £2 card value.

In comparison the hot bacon and tomato roll sold on board with just one meagre piece of bacon and a 5mm thick slice of tomato in a bread bun cost £1.80 if memory serves me rightly

 

[CyrusWuff]

I believe Chiltern's Class 168/0s had a payphone by the Universal toilet when new as well. The entire payphone unit could be removed and replaced with a bike stand or table as well IIRC.

 

[physics34]

the refurbished connex 319/2s had a phone too if i recall correctly

 

[DarloRich]

Will the phones on trains not have used the cellnet network as this was part of BT at the time?

You could also make a reverse charges/charge card calls as i doing on one occasion during a long delay to tell the parents i would be late. When the bill arrived i was no popular!

 

[WillPS]

If you look closely, you can see the outline of a phone symbol on the carriage end of a 158 (where the 'engaged' light comes on).

 

[grumblingalong]

Some of the Anglia 170's had phones, I think just the 2 car variants

 

[jon0844]

It was indeed Cellnet providing the service, and I think O2 has pretty much the same level of coverage today.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Which, on the rail network, is virtually useless because reception is so poor. As a result for work based communications ill either use my own mobile which uses the 3 network, or the GSM-R

Icomera was testing mobile reception across the TPE network on behalf of Stagecoach as they were assessing the network for Wi-Fi fitment. They found EE was the best followed by 3 and confirmed O2 was the poorest. Maybe its about time Worstgroup considered switching allegiance and maybe save a few quid in the process......

 

[strowger]

Deleted

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Which, on the rail network, is virtually useless because reception is so poor. As a result for work based communications ill either use my own mobile which uses the 3 network, or the GSM-R

Icomera was testing mobile reception across the TPE network on behalf of Stagecoach as they were assessing the network for Wi-Fi fitment. They found EE was the best followed by 3 and confirmed O2 was the poorest. Maybe its about time Worstgroup considered switching allegiance and maybe save a few quid in the process......

Hmm... Is this perhaps why I (surprisingly) found I could get good 4G coverage all the way through Standedge Tunnel last week?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I have asked this question on here before. Signal is available on the diggle side, almost up to the marsden portal but is lost until the other side of the station. I considered that mobiles were piggy backing off the network rail GSM-R but apparently this is not the case. There hasnt been a definitive answer from anyone yet as to why it works. Nearby morley tunnel unfortunately doesnt have any reception.

Wi-fi hasnt been inplemented yet, its a franchise commitment for the next holder, hence why stagecoach, not First were carrying out the survey although authorisation also came from first. The guy still had to have a train ticket oddly enoigh......

 

[HSTEd]

When considering the signal coverage we have to consider than the phones likely had proper antennas mounted on or near the carriage roof.

Not a tiny printed circuit antenna inside the carriage itself.

 

[strowger]

Deleted

 

[jon0844]

As long as the data channel worked to hand off calls, it certainly didn't matter so much if there was interference. 4G is far better than 3G though, especially with cell breathing on 3G making things worse during congested periods (a lot of the time now if you consider the elevated data usage).

 

[317666]

I'm guessing this is a 317/7 - I believe they had them fitted during their heavy refurbishment for Stansted Express services.

 

[McDontrains]

I'm guessing this is a 317/7 - I believe they had them fitted during their heavy refurbishment for Stansted Express services.

Must be it, these are ex-WAGN units so makes sense. Surprised TfL haven't removed these non-compliant stickers!

 

[Monkey Magic]

I did use one in an HST buffet car back in the day. They ate up your phone card like no ones business, the connection wasn't bad but I seem to recall it being very noisy and difficult to hear.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

If you look closely, you can see the outline of a phone symbol on the carriage end of a 158 (where the 'engaged' light comes on).

I've noticed that myself...!

Some Northern 158s still have the mounting point for the phone at the inner end of the vehicle.

158904 certainly does - I took a Hull-Sheffield service last week as far as Meadowhall and stood in the vestibule for a few moments ahead of arrival as I had to get over to the Huddersfield platforms for my connection. Whilst waiting at a red on the approach, I noticed the mounting point myself complete with sticker residue where one had been