class 314

[387star]

There are rumours about some sort of refurbishment?

 

[rail-britain]

Yes, now under way, first unit should be back into traffic in March
However, it is fairly basic and will take the units to the end of their life (hmmm, they said that last time too)

Internal retrim, electrical changes, installation of individual door controls (long overdue but now to DDA requirements)
Should see the units continue in service until 2020, when they will sadly have to bow out (as will most ex-BR stock)

 

[387star]

Thanks for that.

Makes me wonder what will replace the 313s with southern... it is ironic one could argue that by having old trains now they could potentially build better trains for '313' routes in the future presuming train designs improve!

Yes I did hear the 314s were to be removed from service a lot earlier than that and am surprised at this news... will be interesting to see them in the new livery which is really taking off now

I also heard about the 156s being treated...

 

[DjU]

Makes me wonder what will replace the 313s with southern...

It's already known what will replace them.

The 23 x 377/5s currently being used on Thameslink belong to Southern will pass back to them when the new Thameslink stock arrives. This coupled with expanding the Thameslink routes will enable the 313s to be replaced as well as account for growth.

 

[Fincra5]

It's already known what will replace them.

The 23 x 377/5s currently being used on Thameslink belong to Southern will pass back to them when the new Thameslink stock arrives. This coupled with expanding the Thameslink routes will enable the 313s to be replaced as well as account for growth.

That all depends if we ever get the trains back from Thameslink, trust the dft to say NOPE.

So my guess is they will be here until they completely fail.

 

[tom1649]

Internal retrim, electrical changes, installation of individual door controls (long overdue but now to DDA requirements)

Were the 314s not fitted with individual door controls when built and then had them removed because they didn't work properly? I guess they've solved this problem since then. I'm not sure why DDA requirements need individual door controls though. London Underground have removed individual door operation in recent years and indeed the latest Victoria Line stock doesn't have door buttons at all.

Class 314s are good basic trains which are right for the services they operate. I dare say there are no complicated electronic systems to go wrong either.

 

[Failed Unit]

I wonder what they will look like in the Saltiare livery....

 

[me123]

There is a mock up in some TS document somewhere. I can't find it at the moment, but I'll post it if come across it.

 

[rail-britain]

Were the 314s not fitted with individual door controls when built and then had them removed because they didn't work properly?

I've never seen door controls on a Class 314
They had handles fitted to assist with emergency opening

 

[Failed Unit]

I've never seen door controls on a Class 314
They had handles fitted to assist with emergency opening

If it was anything like the 313s, you would see no evidence of it once it was removed, I am sure it was on the doors. It was a long time ago but never really worked.

 

[prod_pep]

No, 314s have never had passenger door controls fitted... until now, that is.

The "handles" were fitted to the 313s only from new. They were removed within a couple of years of use due to passengers forcing them open while trains were on the move.

Of the other PEP-derived classes, the 315s and 508s had push button controls fitted from new, while the 507s have never had them.

 

[me123]

I wonder what they will look like in the Saltiare livery....

Click here, and scroll down if you want to see a very cartoon-y mock up. It's probably changed slightly (eg, there will be Gaelic "Rèile na h-Alba" branding), but it might give you a rough idea.

 

[tom1649]

No, 314s have never had passenger door controls fitted... until now, that is.

The "handles" were fitted to the 313s only from new. They were removed within a couple of years of use due to passengers forcing them open while trains were on the move.

Of the other PEP-derived classes, the 315s and 508s had push button controls fitted from new, while the 507s have never had them.

Ahh it was the Merseyrail 508s which had the door buttons removed after introduction. Sorry for the mistake.

 

[rail-britain]

If it was anything like the 313s, you would see no evidence of it once it was removed

I've been travelling on the Class 314 units since their introduction, seen plenty of changes but mostly cosmetic

 

[prod_pep]

I've been travelling on the Class 314 units since their introduction, seen plenty of changes but mostly cosmetic

Ah, I wonder if you can help me then.

Do you remember what the original seat covers the 314s had looked like? I believe it was a blue pattern, which was replaced by the current brown trim in the 90s.

The pattern seen in this picture is identical to the one the 315s had from new. Question is, was the 314 one the same?

 

[rail-britain]

Do you remember what the original seat covers the 314s had looked like? I believe it was a blue pattern, which was replaced by the current brown trim in the 90s

That is the correct seat cover when first introduced
This was later replaced by biege and light blue, which was then used in the Class 303

When the Class 303 units were refurbed, with gangways, they received these same seat covers

These were then replaced by the orange and red spot

The Class 314 units will now be outfitted with a dark and light blue, ironically very similar to what they originall had!

 

[tom1649]

Do any 314s run in 6 car formation during the rush hour?

 

[MacCookie]

Do any 314s run in 6 car formation during the rush hour?

Yes. Full diagrams are on scot-rail.co.uk if you're interested.

Ewan

 

[tom1649]

Yes. Full diagrams are on scot-rail.co.uk if you're interested.

Ewan

Thanks for the link, very interesting!

 

[prod_pep]

That is the correct seat cover when first introduced
This was later replaced by biege and light blue, which was then used in the Class 303

When the Class 303 units were refurbed, with gangways, they received these same seat covers

These were then replaced by the orange and red spot

The Class 314 units will now be outfitted with a dark and light blue, ironically very similar to what they originall had!

Thanks for your help. Would you know the approximate date the covers changed to the beige and blue type? I think the change to the brown type was made in the late 80s, around the time the 303s were refurbished.

Just a shame there aren't any pictures out there of the early 314 interiors!

 

[rail-britain]

Would you know the approximate date the covers changed to the beige and blue type? I think the change to the brown type was made in the late 80s, around the time the 303s were refurbished

The original blue lasted from new to about 1983
The biege and light blue was used between about 1983 and 1985, when the units were repainted into Strathclyde orange and black

The Class 303 also had this biege and light blue when first refurbished
It was later revised to the orange and red spot, as the biege and light blue showed up the dirt too easily
The Class 314 eventually had the orange and red spot fitted, once most of the Class 303 units had been refurbished

The reason the original blue covers were replaced, for something more neutral, was due to the high levels of vandalism and damage they received
As the units were primarily used on the Argyle Line it was soon found that most damage was caused after football games
This is something the previous Class 303 and 311 units had rarely suffered, again as they had a primarily neutral colour

There was concern when the Class 318 units appeared, with their dark blue covers
However, due to the routes they were to be used on cases of vandalism and damage were less frequent

 

[prod_pep]

Thanks again, Rail-Britain. I had no idea about the beige and blue seat covers.

Next task is trying to find a picture of a 314 (or even 303) with the beige and blue. Could be a tough one!

Just to throw another quick question into the mix, a bit of a long shot, this one. Do you know the first 314 to enter passenger service back in '79? I have read conflicting stories: Scot-Rail website has it as 314202 but I have a fleet book which has 314204 and 314208 down as a 6-car.

 

[rail-britain]

314202 was the first to enter service on the morning of 02 November
However the Argyle Line was officially opened a few hours later, using a pair of Class 314 units, and I have a photo somewhere, the train carrying officials from BR and SPTE to Motherwell and back

 

[prod_pep]

Much appreciated! I'd really like to see that picture someday if you happen to stumble across it.

One thing I forgot to mention: there was another "official" opening train which ran on 01/11/79 and carried the Queen. 314210 was the unit in charge according to British Electric Multiple Units on Camera, an early 80s book I have. I would assume the 314204 + 314208 set mentioned in the fleet book was in fact the opening train that you mentioned, with 202 the first service train.

 

[brel york]

i would be suprised if any new stock from york at that time had that moquette ,it is from the mk2 coaching stock,may have been called blue domino not sure ,it is derived from the moquette used on the first production mk 2s

 

[prod_pep]

I'm going by what the picture caption says, plus two people now have confirmed that was the same moquette the 314s had when introduced.

I've never seen personally the original 314 and 315 interiors, so am going by what others have said.

 

[me123]

I wonder what they will look like in the Saltiare livery....

I meant to post this before, but now I've returned to this thread, I've just realised that I've failed immensely in doing so

Here's the link which shows official mock-ups of a variety of units. Sadly, there's no 320 on it, but we'll find out what that's like soon enough.

 

[rail-britain]

Sadly, there's no 320 on it, but we'll find out what that's like soon enough

Also, no Class 318
I queried this with Transport Scotland and they advised that since the Class 314 was almost identical there was no need (perhaps they misunderstood that the Class 318 and Class 320 are almost identical, the windows alone on the Class 314 are quite different)
However they are available on request

 

[brel york]

most of the new build brel stock of the 70s didnt have moquette it was usually a flat cloth ,the mk 3s had an orange coloured fabric ,br had moved on to easily removable top covers that could be dry cleaned as opposed to the pre mk2f seats (based on the xp64 seat)these covers were stapled on to wood ,ic 70 and onwards had velco fastners, so did the pep derived emus ,if you want to see the original interior of the class 210 demus(the original mk 3 mu bodyshell prototype ) check out small town boy music video by bronski beat the group are travelling in one off the vehicals.class 150 /1 seats had a metal frame with a top cover with plastic clips 319 onwards had wooden bases with velcro fastners.

 

[Jackster]

Does anyone know why the 314212 is scheduled to be off duty for so long? The 334s seem to be stripped one weekend then reliveried the next - whereas 314212 isn't scheduled to be back until lateish March http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+314+Relivery+and+Overhaul+11-12