Class 314 Withdrawals

[route101]

Is this from the December timetable change? I was wondering where they'll get the extra 380s from to cover the Cathcart routes. Can only guess that the North Berwick handover to 385s would produce them.

EDIT: It was a 314 on that service today.

Guy tweeted that it was 380 today on that service , cant 100 percent confirm.

 

[route101]

Agreed - the PEP-derived units have been reliable and dependable, and have got on with things without fuss for 40 years, but there's a lot of features in them that are pretty horrible. The window alignment has to be just about the worst you'll find anywhere - about half the seats don't have a decent view - and the seats themselves are ghastly. The detachable cushions are just about the right size to be tossed out the hopper windows as well! Add to that, the heating only has two settings - "off" and "nuclear".

I actually do quite like them, though, and will miss them when they're gone.

Yeah the window alignment is pants for sure , i wonder if they were to have some airline seating it would be better .

 

[sannox]

Need to get on that, not had a Weymss bay 314!

Allocation seems to be quite random and seems to change at random!

 

[Journeyman]

Yeah the window alignment is pants for sure , i wonder if they were to have some airline seating it would be better .

The prototype PEP units did, which allowed the bays to be lined up better with the windows.

 

[Bikeman78]

Allocation seems to be quite random and seems to change at random!

I disagree, they had 14 diagrams, now they have 11. During my three day trip in July the 314s turned up exactly where I expected them to.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The prototype PEP units did, which allowed the bays to be lined up better with the windows.

They also had three sets of doors per side, which would've made the dimensions of each section between doors quite different. Though it also meant more door-pockets of course.

The window alignment of the production PEP derivatives is no worse than on the 20m Mk3 classes, but with a bit of thought to seating arrangements, the alignment on both types could be better. As always, it's a compromise with the main purpose of the units which is to move large numbers of people into and out of urban centres in the peaks.

 

[stantheman]

I disagree, they had 14 diagrams, now they have 11. During my three day trip in July the 314s turned up exactly where I expected them to.

Where do the diagrams take them , are there still any Gourock and Wemyss Bay workings , what are Sunday’s like ? Thanks for any info , visiting soon

 

[Journeyman]

They also had three sets of doors per side, which would've made the dimensions of each section between doors quite different. Though it also meant more door-pockets of course.

The window alignment of the production PEP derivatives is no worse than on the 20m Mk3 classes, but with a bit of thought to seating arrangements, the alignment on both types could be better. As always, it's a compromise with the main purpose of the units which is to move large numbers of people into and out of urban centres in the peaks.

I managed to get up-close-and-personal with the original PEP prototypes twice, but I was very young at the time. I saw one in the bay platform at Kingston when I was at primary school, so must have been 1983-ish, and then actually got inside one a year or two later on an (entirely unofficial and unauthorised) visit to Strawberry Hill depot. Alas I had no camera, and didn't realise it would be scrapped shortly afterwards. It was in pretty ropey condition by then, but was more or less complete, and had loads of paperwork relating to it scattered about all over the floor. Wish I'd nicked some of that! I can't remember what the window alignment was like, but it did seem quite bright inside, despite everything being covered in dirt, pigeon droppings etc.

I'd say the production PEP window alignment is slightly worse than the later Mark 3-derived units, as the windows themselves seem narrower, with a bigger gap between them.

 

[Bikeman78]

Where do the diagrams take them , are there still any Gourock and Wemyss Bay workings , what are Sunday’s like ? Thanks for any info , visiting soon

They still do most trains to Neilston/Newton/Cathcart Circle and also to Paisley Canal. There are still plenty to Gourock and some go to Wemyss Bay in the afternoon peak. Sundays are similar, only one early working to Gourock but one diagram goes to Wemyss Bay all day.

 

[route101]

They still do most trains to Neilston/Newton/Cathcart Circle and also to Paisley Canal. There are still plenty to Gourock and some go to Wemyss Bay in the afternoon peak. Sundays are similar, only one early working to Gourock but one diagram goes to Wemyss Bay all day.

Anyone know what the weekday times of the 314 to Wemyss Bay ? Is there one before the peak

 

[Highlandspring]

Weekdays...

GW113 diagram does:
0612 Wemyss Bay - Central

GW112 diagram does:
1718 Central - Wemyss Bay
1824 Wemyss Bay - Central
1936 Central - Wemyss Bay
2047 Wemyss Bay - Central
2236 Central - Wemyss Bay

GW110 diagram does
1756 Central - Wemyss Bay
1855 Wemyss Bay - Central

 

[gc1982]

Couple of questions - When are the next 314's likely to be withdrawn? and will they will head straight to scrap once all 16 have been withdrawn?

 

[mic505]

Once all 16 are off-lease they will go straight for scrap, unless they are converted as barrier wagons or engineering trains. I would assume the next couple of months for the next 314's to be withdrawn. This depends on how many more 385's enter traffic, along with more 380's cascaded.

 

[youngac]

I think currently there are 11x 314 diagrams currently in use. Only 9x are planned from the December timetable change onwards, so that implies only a few more units will be withdrawn by this year and that full withdrawal will take place sometime between the December and May timetables provided there are no more hiccups with the 385s.

 

[snookertam]

Guy tweeted that it was 380 today on that service , cant 100 percent confirm.

It was a 3 car 380 today. Could do with a four car, a lot of standing.

I also see there are 6 car 380 stop boards appearing at Cathcart Circle stations. Just wondering what the plan there is as previously 380s were restricted to single unit working only on these lines, and of course the Neilston headshunt is too short for more than one unit. Is there a chance this will be lengthened? Even a 4 car 380 will struggle to take 6 car 314 loadings.

What's the story with the 385 add-on option for a few years down the line. Wouldn't it be nice if these were made as an inner suburban version of the units and were devoted to the Cathcart & Paisley Canal lines? Once the 314s go then I don't think there'll be any units that really suit the shorter routes out of GLC.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

It was a 3 car 380 today. Could do with a four car, a lot of standing.

I also see there are 6 car 380 stop boards appearing at Cathcart Circle stations. Just wondering what the plan there is as previously 380s were restricted to single unit working only on these lines, and of course the Neilston headshunt is too short for more than one unit. Is there a chance this will be lengthened? Even a 4 car 380 will struggle to take 6 car 314 loadings.

What's the story with the 385 add-on option for a few years down the line. Wouldn't it be nice if these were made as an inner suburban version of the units and were devoted to the Cathcart & Paisley Canal lines? Once the 314s go then I don't think there'll be any units that really suit the shorter routes out of GLC.

I must say I agree. I don’t feel the 380s or 385s are very well suited to the old 314 workings. I think the 318s and 320s would have been a more worthy replacement. They have all the modern specs now but are the standard size. It would be nice if they could acquire more 321s and convert them. Then by the time the 318s/320s are to be replaced they can design a more inner suburban unit that can be used on the shorter routes and East Kilbride when it’s electrified.

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

I must say I agree. I don’t feel the 380s or 385s are very well suited to the old 314 workings. I think the 318s and 320s would have been a more worthy replacement. They have all the modern specs now but are the standard size. It would be nice if they could acquire more 321s and convert them. Then by the time the 318s/320s are to be replaced they can design a more inner suburban unit that can be used on the shorter routes and East Kilbride when it’s electrified.

Doesn’t seem to be the plan, but surely the best idea would be to switch 320s off the Lanarks and onto the suburban services, and use 380s or 385s on Lanarks?

 

[gingertom]

Any thoughts on using 4-car 321s on Paisley Canal?

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

Any thoughts on using 4-car 321s on Paisley Canal?

Think the original plan was to use 4 car 380s on peak Canals but that got dropped when the E&G took priority for them. Not sure if the Canals are still busy enough to need 4 cars?

 

[snookertam]

Doesn’t seem to be the plan, but surely the best idea would be to switch 320s off the Lanarks and onto the suburban services, and use 380s or 385s on Lanarks?

It would make sense, and when the talk was that 385s would go onto the Cathcart routes I thought that the more likely outcome would have been what you are suggesting. Only problem is that I think 318 and 320 units are too cramped when it's busy - there's big panels around the doors as they've tried to squeeze extra seats in - so whilst yes their cars are the standard length and better for 6 car workings, they could do with some internal alterations.

Although I did notice the other night that the 380s acceleration is pretty good, almost matches the 314s I thought (and they are pretty quick off the mark), so that would help as most stations are only about a km apart. ScotRail did say it would be a mix of 380s and 320/318s on the routes so we will see how they're distributed.

 

[route101]

It was a 3 car 380 today. Could do with a four car, a lot of standing.

I also see there are 6 car 380 stop boards appearing at Cathcart Circle stations. Just wondering what the plan there is as previously 380s were restricted to single unit working only on these lines, and of course the Neilston headshunt is too short for more than one unit. Is there a chance this will be lengthened? Even a 4 car 380 will struggle to take 6 car 314 loadings.

What's the story with the 385 add-on option for a few years down the line. Wouldn't it be nice if these were made as an inner suburban version of the units and were devoted to the Cathcart & Paisley Canal lines? Once the 314s go then I don't think there'll be any units that really suit the shorter routes out of GLC.

I was on that on Friday evening . Was not too packed .Not often i go up to Neilston . Was impressed how quick we got out to Muirend , whitecraigs etc . Seen a 320 on the express service from Central. 380 was a lot quieter and comfortable than a 314 for sure . Though a 380 is not able to stretch its legs on these routes .

 

[route101]

Think the original plan was to use 4 car 380s on peak Canals but that got dropped when the E&G took priority for them. Not sure if the Canals are still busy enough to need 4 cars?

Seen a 380 on a canal service on Friday .

 

[route101]

I thought there was 385s for the Cathcart etc lines or im i wrong . Yes the 318/320s are cramped with 3 plus 2 seating . Makes the 156s seem comfortable on the EK line , though ive seen a few 2 car full and standing services out to EK the last week.

 

[SC318250]

If I recall correctly, the reason for the 5 extra 320/4 were for 6 car Neilston services.

380/385 services will be ok on Newton/Lanark services.

Neilston turnback, is there no scope to extend it?

 

[gingertom]

If I recall correctly, the reason for the 5 extra 320/4 were for 6 car Neilston services.

380/385 services will be ok on Newton/Lanark services.

Neilston turnback, is there no scope to extend it?

Double Hedges Road cuts right across the (old) alignment where the line has been cut back. A bridge or level crossing would be required to extend the turnback and that's expensive.

 

[NotATrainspott]

The alternative would be to make Neilston a more standard terminus arrangement with S&C east of the platforms.

 

[KMS1992]

The Mosspark to Central train (Paisley Canal line) is my local one. There have been a mix of 380s and 314s for the last couple of years. At the moment, the 08:13 and 08:43 and the 17:13 and 17:43 trains usually have 4-coach 380s. In my experience these trains are always packed so I usually get the 07:43 from Mosspark. It is always a 314 and even though it is packed and there are no seats, it has more room for standing than a 380 (in my opinion).

 

[SC318250]

At the moment, the 08:13 and 08:43 and the 17:13 and 17:43 trains usually have 4-coach 385s.

I take it you mean 4 coach 380

 

[Southsider]

I also see there are 6 car 380 stop boards appearing at Cathcart Circle stations. Just wondering what the plan there is as previously 380s were restricted to single unit working only on these lines, and of course the Neilston headshunt is too short for more than one unit. Is there a chance this will be lengthened? Even a 4 car 380 will struggle to take 6 car 314 loadings.

I knew Paisley Canal was restricted to single unit working but I didn’t realise it applied to these other routes. Most of the platforms are long enough and there is SDO where required so why the restriction? The Neilston headshunt looks as if it could just about take a six car 380 and there is scope to extend towards the road by a few metres. The idea posted of moving the points to before the station is probably more sensible as the platforms are long enough for 6x23 metre.

 

[KMS1992]

I take it you mean 4 coach 380

Sorry, yes.