Class 304, why 2 guards vans?

[delt1c]

I remember the 304's when they used to operate around the Liverpool and manchester areas , one thing that always puzled me was why as they were only 4 cars did they have 2 guards compartments? They basically LM version of the ER 305/308' and they only had 1 gaurds compartment. Interesting point is that the DTBS on a 304 was very similair to the 504's DMB.
But why waste potential passenger accomodation with an additional brake . Also which compartment did the guard use?
Oh memory lane.

 

[yorksrob]

Whilst I can't provide a definative answer, I can confirm that some earlier Southern Region units such as EPB's, and before refurbishment, CEP's also had a guards van at each end. I think that these were much smaller compared to the single van in a pre-refurbishment VEP for example, so perhaps it was an attempt to spread luggage accommodation throughout the train a bit more. It also meant that if a unit entered a terminal station, there was always a van near to the platform barrier.

 

[delt1c]

Whilst the sothern units had a guards van at either end. the 304's has a van at one end behind the driving cab and the 2nd van was in the centre of the unit situated in the MBS below the pantograph, the centre van I could understand or a van at either end southern style , but to have a van in the midle and at 1 end was strange.

 

[generalvegitable]

ah that explains it, having the guards van under the pantograph can save the designers from a structural problem, having it there will remove the necessity to have a whacking great pillar in the middle of a passenger compartment (see the 321/319 for example) so it can be routed though an internal wall, this also can help to increase the power of the motor by allowing it to (slightly) increase in size, and therefore power

 

[yorksrob]

Ahhh, now its beginning to make sense. Having one behind a solitary driving cab's perhaps more difficult to explain. I think they generally needed a lot more van space in those days.

 

[delt1c]

fully understand the reason for the guards van below the pantograph as per ER 305 and 308, but why did the 304's have a 2nd gaurds behind the driving cab?