Class 304 EMUs

[yorksrob]

I'm quite jelous of all this !

I remember on the way to Uni in the 90's seeing a 312 or 310 in a bay platform at Crewe and being intrigued (The picture window/door bay arrangement wasn't something we had on our Southern units) and hoping to get one one day. Sadly I never did !

 

[Crisso]

As a young nine year old, I rode in a fairly new Class 304 from Higham's Park to St. James Street on the Chingford Branch in (I'm guessing) early 1961! I remember being impressed by the slightly lighter green livery, as compared to the regular Class 305 very dark green livery plus, the yellow line at mid level, as well as the high back seats in the saloon coaches. Of course, along with LTSR destined Class 302's, they were substituting at the time for the aforesaid Class 305's which had suffered electrical and fire problems, similar to but to a slightly lesser extent than what had occurred in Glasgow.
Interestingly, the destination of the said Class 304 read 'Liverpool'...!

 

[Taunton]

As a young nine year old, I rode in a fairly new Class 304 from Higham's Park to St. James Street on the Chingford Branch in (I'm guessing) early 1961! I remember being impressed by the slightly lighter green livery, as compared to the regular Class 305 very dark green livery plus, the yellow line at mid level, as well as the high back seats in the saloon coaches. Of course, along with LTSR destined Class 302's, they were substituting at the time for the aforesaid Class 305's which had suffered electrical and fire problems, similar to but to a slightly lesser extent than what had occurred in Glasgow.

OK, I've seen a couple of other references to 304s being used on the GE at the start of the AC electrification as well. So how did that work? The Chingford Line, like all the inner area GE AC lines, was 6.25Kv, throughout. The 304s were built for the LMR, where no 6.25Kv reduced voltage existed, and (As Far As I Am Aware) did not have the voltage changeover equipment, which was quite complex. Given that the transformer explosions in the 305s were directly related to the 6.25/25Kv changeover equipments malfunctioning, it is most unlikely that these were tinkered with on other units while the problem was being sorted.

 

[Crisso]

Hi 'Taunton' - whilst it was a very long time ago, the Chingford Electrification was a big deal to us junior schoolboys - a quantum leap from N7's, together with grubby maroon Gresley Quint-art Stock - to high voltage overhead Electrification - even if the Class 305 Electric Units were somewhat dowdy in their plain dark green livery, as opposed to the Blue Trains of the Glasgow scheme!

Anyway, weren't most if not all the early A.C. Stock (and even some of the prototype Loco Classes 81-85) originally equipped for both 6.25KV and 25KV AC?

 

[dubscottie]

I have an old, long out of print magazine that had a very detailed description of the 304s. I am 99% sure some of them had 6.25Kv equipment.

I can scan it and post if there are no copyright issues.

 

[nlogax]

As a kid I lived in a house with a garden backing right onto the Chingford line, and 304s / 305s are all I ever remember seeing in both all-blue and blue-grey. Not that I had any clue about the difference between the classes way back then..they all looked the same to me! I can still remember them clattering towards us from a mile away on jointed track. Happy memories.

 

[43096]

As a kid I lived in a house with a garden backing right onto the Chingford line, and 304s / 305s are all I ever remember seeing in both all-blue and blue-grey. Not that I had any clue about the difference between the classes way back then..they all looked the same to me! I can still remember them clattering towards us from a mile away on jointed track. Happy memories.

I’m not aware of any 304s working out of Liverpool St in blue (or later days) - they were solidly Manchester/Birmingham area units; based out of Longsight and Crewe Electric depots.

 

[jonesy3001]

305's worked out of london, the 304's worked around the manchester and liverpool areas.

 

[Ash Bridge]

The OP is perhaps thinking of the similar looking 308s which operated alongside the 305s around that period?

 

[QJ]

I didn’t manage any unusual routes in 304s though I did spend a few hours trundling up the Trent Valley to try and travel over the up slow line outside the Stour line flyover at Rugby to no avail. Sods Law that having given up and boarded an overnight hauled service later that night to London that train promptly did it.

Likewise, my recollection of travelling on 310s was not straying too far off their expected routes with the exception of a run to Walsall in around 1983 and boarding one the same year at Oxford Road on a lunchtime service from Altrincham to Crewe. These would appear to be covering for unavailable 304s. Around this time 303s were allocated to Longsight working to Hadfield and Altrincham.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

My family moved home to Stafford in 1994 when I was mid-way through primary school. At the time the Stafford-Stoke stopper was a guaranteed 304, as the diagrams were integrated into the Coventry-Wolverhampton stopping service every few hours in order to serve Penkridge. The Cross-City line seemed to produce anything and everything that Tyseley and Soho depots were capable of turning out between them, presumably due to the several years’ delay in commissioning the 323 fleet. Think anything from 101/108/115/116/117/118/119/304/308/310! Similarly the Trent Valley stoppers were usually 304s, running to/from Crewe and Rugby. Occasionally you’d get an NSE-liveried 308 which seemed rather incongruous in Stafford P6, although one Saturday produced the GWR-liveried 117 on loan to Tyseley from the Looe branch! 310s seemed to be fairly thin at Stafford in 1994, as the Birmingham-Manchester semi fasts were no more (cut back to a Stoke-Piccadilly stopper using 304/305) and the Birmingham-Liverpool’s were still Intercity XC half-sets.

Very quickly this changed - the Stafford-Stoke became a regular 310 diagram, the Trent Valley local diverted to Coventry and became a 153 or 156, the Liverpool-Birmingham was increased to hourly but effectively became a stopper vice express, usually a 310 but gradually replaced by Soho 323 units. The 304s went into the scrap line in Salop Sidings and gradually rusted for the following decade.

 

[Taunton]

one Saturday produced the GWR-liveried 117 on loan to Tyseley from the Looe branch!

These odd dmu substitutions did occur along the electric lines, not for weekend engineering but just individual trains. I recall, and it must have been about 1966, a Saturday morning Liverpool Lime Street-Crewe stopper not being the 304, but of all things a 4-car set of the original Derby Lightweight "yellow diamond" dmus. At least I got the view out of the front. As these sets had different controls to later mainstream diesels, I wonder how the driver from Liverpool or Crewe, who nonchalently drove it as if it was an everyday task, even signed it, as they otherwise were unknown in the area. And why it was done.

About 20 years later, living down in London, colleague commuted from Billericay to Liverpool Street by the Southend Victoria electric line. One morning some issue had happened further down the Southend line, and the dmu from the Wickford-Southminster branch was hijacked to do a shuttle to Shenfield, providing at least some service for the London commuters.

 

[crosscity]

I didn’t manage any unusual routes in 304s ....

When the Motor Show moved to the NEC, I'm sure there were a load of additional trains on the Saturday to Birmingham International. I recall catching a 304 on an unusual route from Wolverhampton to Birmingham International via Soho, Aston and Stechford, thus avoiding New St. I'm certain the additional services were advertised in a special leaflet.

 

[yorksrob]

These sound like wonderful units. I'm plain jelous of you all for enjoying them..

 

[Taunton]

When the Motor Show moved to the NEC, I'm sure there were a load of additional trains on the Saturday to Birmingham International. I recall catching a 304 on an unusual route from Wolverhampton to Birmingham International via Soho, Aston and Stechford, thus avoiding New St. I'm certain the additional services were advertised in a special leaflet.

There were. I went too, even in the week it was a big operation. From New Street, 2 x 304. Now a multiple 8-car 304 was an unusual formation, I can't recall anywhere else they served with doubled-up units, although doubtless there were some.

There was a manned Class 47 Thunderbird idling in the siding at International, just in case, with an extremely bored-looking crew, and the return service was even more surprising, a 9-car Class 116 suburban dmu from Tyseley.

 

[43096]

These sound like wonderful units. I'm plain jelous of you all for enjoying them..

They weren’t - this is just misty eyed nostalgia. They had the usual slam door issues of being cold and draughty in winter and hot in summer, and the ride was appalling. The arrival of the Class 323s as replacements represented a step-change in quality - the 323s are vastly superior.

 

[yorksrob]

They weren’t - this is just misty eyed nostalgia. They had the usual slam door issues of being cold and draughty in winter and hot in summer, and the ride was appalling. The arrival of the Class 323s as replacements represented a step-change in quality - the 323s are vastly superior.

You mean all that overstated nonsense that people trot out about slam door trains.

 

[43096]

You mean all that overstated nonsense that people trot out about slam door trains.

No, I mean the problems that afflict all slam-door stock with doors at every seating bay. That from being a regular user of them.

 

[keith1879]

No, I mean the problems that afflict all slam-door stock with doors at every seating bay. That from being a regular user of them.

Seconded ... I remember when we got a few clapped out 303s in Manchester - what a massive improvement over the equally old 304s.

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[kermit]

These sound like wonderful units. I'm plain jelous of you all for enjoying them..

They really weren't! I remember unwisely getting into one of the full width compartments at Piccadilly, not realising it was match day at Old Trafford. I was then stuck in an overfilled compartment with about 10 chainsmokers. Kippered. And the slam door latches were a nightmare, really stiff to operate from inside, many a panicked passenger would barely be able to get out at their stop. The clouds of dust from the deep horsehair seats were pretty 'orrible too.

 

[yorksrob]

They really weren't! I remember unwisely getting into one of the full width compartments at Piccadilly, not realising it was match day at Old Trafford. I was then stuck in an overfilled compartment with about 10 chainsmokers. Kippered. And the slam door latches were a nightmare, really stiff to operate from inside, many a panicked passenger would barely be able to get out at their stop. The clouds of dust from the deep horsehair seats were pretty 'orrible too.

To be honest, I don't think any railway carriage crush-loaded with chain-smokers is going to be pleasant.

With regard to door handles, on the Southern with a lot of ours, you still had the option of sticking your hand out the window and opening them from the outside.

That said, on an un-crowded service, they sound like just my type of train. Would love to have had something like that turn up randomly between Lancaster and Warrington over the last few weeks.

 

[Crisso]

Further to my previous posts, reminiscing memories of a Class 304, substituting for Class 305's experiencing electrical problems on the Chingford Branch, in the early days of the North East London electrification - I have recently borrowed from my local Essex library a copy of a book called 'London's East End Railways', which has a black and white photo of an AM4/2 No.020 in it's original livery and condition at Liverpool Street dated 3/8/61. So, it would appear they were originally built at least with both 6.25 and 25 Kv capability.

 

[MDB1images]

Loved them.
You was bounced about like no-ones business on those seats!

Don't remember them being too cold on trips to Crewe as generally remember them being really toasty warm in winter but can recall the drafts from the doors particularly before withdrawal.

 

[dubscottie]

They could work off 6.25kv.

There is a good technical description of them here. (Pdf)

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=4082

 

[KevinTurvey]

That is an interesting article. I am amazed that 15 units were ordered for Manchester-Crewe, and 20 units for Liverpool-Crewe for what effectively was an hourly service, 3 or 4 would have been enough for each?

 

[Journeyman]

That is an interesting article. I am amazed that 15 units were ordered for Manchester-Crewe, and 20 units for Liverpool-Crewe for what effectively was an hourly service, 3 or 4 would have been enough for each?

They did seem to go overboard buying lots of units in the past. The Class 504s for Manchester - Bury were ordered in ridiculously massive quantities and about half of them were surplus after only a few years. Even after that, the remaining fleet wasn't exactly taxed.

 

[Taunton]

We have discussed the notional unit allocation before. The initial 15 for Manchester was about right, given the 15 minute interval service from Alderley Edge to Oxford Road, alternately by each route, with an hourly extension to Crewe, plus rush hour extras. The 20 for "Liverpool" appears to be just the way the projects were described, it only ever needed three units to run the approx hourly Liverpool stopping service. Subsequent electrification to Stoke etc did not order any units, they were just taken from this pool. Only another 10 were added at the end for Birmingham etc. Maybe it was a way of describing that 15 units would be maintained at Longsight, and 20 at Allerton.

There were actually less cars in the Class 504 Bury order than the old L&Y units they replaced. What did happen is that demand, and then the service provided, fell right away after they were introduced, which happened to a number of inner suburban electric operations - the Class 501 operations out of Euston/Broad Street were the same.

 

[AY1975]

They could work off 6.25kv.

There is a good technical description of them here. (Pdf)

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=4082

Wow! Some interior photos on that document, including a rare one of a first class compartment complete with reading lamps of the same type that the 302s (and presumably 308s) had in as-built condition.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Useless fact - but one of the 304's was converted for in cab signal display trials between (I think) Wilmslow and Sandbach , obvious early transponders etc fitted. Sort of "Southern AWS" trials , but away from the Southern ! - the signal displays were apparently replicated in the cab . BRB were increasingly aware of the risk of drivers repeatedly cancelling AWS "automatically" , such that a risk of not fully appreciating the risk of cancelling on a single yellow , vice a double yellow. Good idea , but I do not think it came to anything.

What struck me about these robust units , was the retention of classic 1950's style bulbs in big lightshades which lasted pretty much to the end ,and some ill-inspired painting of the rear bulkheads in so- 1970's meringue yellow.....which contrasted badly to the original varnished woodwork ...!