That's probably why they are thinking of still going ahead. They're stuck with them, so might as well use them. Well, unless they can convince someone else to buy them off of them....
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Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates
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Invincible
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The Island line trains are working OK.
South Western Railway 'confident' that Vivarail collapse shouldn't affect Island Line
The positive news follows an announcement from the builder of the new Island Line trains going into administration last month
onthewight.com
Aren't those trains already in service? Which makes the situation slightly different.The Island line trains are working OK.
South Western Railway 'confident' that Vivarail collapse shouldn't affect Island Line
The positive news follows an announcement from the builder of the new Island Line trains going into administration last monthonthewight.com
Maintenance is done in-house with the 484s - Vivarail provided maintenance for the LNR units, and presumably the TfW units too.The Island line trains are working OK.
South Western Railway 'confident' that Vivarail collapse shouldn't affect Island Line
The positive news follows an announcement from the builder of the new Island Line trains going into administration last monthonthewight.com
I think that Stadler have a contract for the maintenance of the TfW units at Birkenhead North.
DavidGrain
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Vivarail were contracted to do the maintenance of the Marston Vale units which is why they have been withdrawn from use' They are LNW's only diesel units and the line was previously worked by borrowed WMR units which were swapped out from Tyseley every weekend. Tyseley's only spare units are 196s which Bletchley drivers will not have been trained on.
The TfW units are owned by Tfw who contracted the maintenance to Stadler.
The IOW units are maintained in house by SWR who have the staff qualified to do electrical and bodywork maingtenance.
The TfW units are owned by Tfw who contracted the maintenance to Stadler.
The IOW units are maintained in house by SWR who have the staff qualified to do electrical and bodywork maingtenance.
The 150s ad 153s were not borrowed from WMR, LNW and WMR are just brands used by West Midlands Trains the company that runs the franchise.
LNWR and WMR are the same company currently so it doesn't really matter. Marston Vale can only take DMUs with 20m or shorter carriages so only 150s and 230s can serve it. 153s can work it so I wouldn't be suprised if a few turned up there.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I checked the Sectional Appendix and there were only a couple of platforms affected. Plus 196s are cleared for everything except Bedford P1A at present. So my prediction remains that it'll be buses until EWR to Oxford opens, but when it does I suspect one more 196 will appear and that will serve it, probably on a somewhat thinner timetable to now.
Silverlinky
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Did WMT own the 230 units or were they leased from VivaRail? IF they were only leased it explains why they can't be run now as technically they would be the property of the administrator. I know that VivaRail provided all the maintenance, technical support and stabling as part of their contract, I think they even fuelled the units as part of the overall deal.
SWR, owning their units, would not face issues with their fleet in the same way WMT did. Am assuming that as SWR units were third rail electric they did not have gensets...those being the main cause for reliability issues on the LNR fleet.
That would make sense.
Both WMT and SWR units are leased from Lombard North Central (Natwest). WMT contract Vivarail for maintenance, as they entered administration they were unable to maintain the units so they could not safely be in service. SWR handle maintenance in house so much less affected.
Razorblades
Member
I would be surprised, as 153s are no longer on the operator's safety-case (and the off-lease ones are more of a basket-case!).
When is the EWR scheduled to open? Am I right in thinking it is still a year or so away?
zwk500
Veteran Member
Yep, testing spring 2024 then full service from DEC24, according to post #905 in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...letchley-construction-progress.216561/page-31
The ORR has finally agreed a half hourly service can be introduced, but with a gap to allow for freight movements during the day. But until TfW makes a decision about the Class 230s the service can't be introduced. I'm not sure if Class 150s could be relied upon to keep to time even if there were units available.
As for maintenance, isn't a big issue the availability of spare parts? as they don't yet know who will take ownership of surplus the D78s. 230s may only be in service 5-10 years but I'm sure they'll need some spare D78 parts during that time. Also need to ensure they can still source power packs and battery control systems.
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I’ve stayed away from 230’s completely but have recently been given a date to start training on them. So it sounds like things will be moving forward. This is the first time in a few years that new driver training has happened that I know of. It’s mainly been refresh training.
It’s obviously nothing to really go off but it doesn’t sound to me that they’ve completely given up on them.
It’s obviously nothing to really go off but it doesn’t sound to me that they’ve completely given up on them.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Interesting. Which route(s) / area does this cover ?.
Borderlands line on the 230s.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
I am not so sure D78 parts are the issue, as they are principally bodyshells, bogies, and maybe doors. I would say it is all the "below solebar" stuff that is Vivarail technology, and it must be their techies to maintain certification etc. Unless of course WMR / DfT have bought the Vivarail tech support in.
I suppose that in a roundabout way a couple of 150s could be obtained on sublease from Northern, but all people would need recertifying on them and Northern would need to reinstate a couple of recently stored 156s to balance. A very costly business to manage in terms of man hours and bunce. Far easier to hire RRBs until EWR are ready to take over.
D821
Member
It looks like the 230s have moved around the depot the last couple days, but I'm not sure if that's because they are training on them or Merseyrail needed the depot space.
Training starts on them again on Sunday 5th Feb. (For drivers, the first day or two will be classroom based of course, so don’t expect them to be out then)
Zontar
Member
Who is doing the maintenance then?
DavidGrain
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Not Vivarail as TfW long ago decided that they would contract maintenance to a different company. I understand that maintenance is done by Stadler at Birkenhead North MerseyRail Depot.
As for LNW and the Marston Vale 230s, I would have thought that they could have been maintained at Tyseley as the previous trains on that line were borrowed from Tyseley who used to swap them out each week.
As for LNW and the Marston Vale 230s, I would have thought that they could have been maintained at Tyseley as the previous trains on that line were borrowed from Tyseley who used to swap them out each week.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Have Stadler when taking over the maintenance contract, sourced enough spares items from the Vivarail LU stock prior to the Vivarail administration to enable them to carry out the fulfilling of the terms of the maintenance contract?
Wivenswold
Established Member
That's what BR Depot Managers said when they received Pacers. Hopefully these won't last 40 years.
zwk500
Veteran Member
Isn't there a Driver Knowledge gap with Tyseley not signing 230s and Bletchley not signing to Tyseley?
Also, the site is not the problem but the maitenance staff, who were laid off.
DavidGrain
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What spare parts would they need? Anything fitted by Vivarail can be sourced from Vivarail's suppliers, the bogies were replaced by LU within living memory and should therefore last the remaining lifetime of the units and any running repairs to the bodywork should be within the capabilities of a bodybuilder.
Why can they only be served by 20m trains? On Marshlink we have 23m trains (171s) but in the case of two of the stations only the doors on the front carriage open.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
I don't know the reason, but I bet it is written into the contract to operate the service. I know that for a number of years an intercity franchise tried to negotiate with the trade unions to introduce SDO. It was eventually abandoned. Perhaps it is the case that they cannot use SDO on the MArston Vale, but can on the Marshlink - only a guess
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