Class 222 Buffet Doors

[ECML180]

Hello all,

I am unlucky enough to use these trains fairly regularly and have always wondered why there is one set of doors in the buffet car that are only used to get the trolley on and off?

I often catch the train at Loughborough and there is simply not enough time booked for the number of passengers getting on and off, on one occasion I saw a member of train staff open the door to speed boarding so my question is:

1) Why is it designed to be different?
2) Why is it not opened manually more often?

Cheers
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also - while we're at it, why do TMs not open all doors when arriving at a busy station rather than just unlocking them? Is this not possible on 222s?

 

[Crossover]

To answer your second question, there is very little stock where the doors all open when a door release is put up so the Meridians are no different. Apologies if I've misunderstood though

 

[ECML180]

No you've understood perfectly! I ask as I recall (possibly incorrectly) journeys when I was younger where upon arriving at a station the doors would often just open whether or not someone was intending to use them.

 

[tsr]

To answer your second question, there is very little stock where the doors all open when a door release is put up so the Meridians are no different. Apologies if I've misunderstood though

Some Bombardier mainline stock can do it, but it's generally not used or disabled. I don't know if this applies to Meridians.

There can be issues of consistency - for example, if at some stations doors open automatically, but at others they don't, passengers can end up dithering for quite a while thinking the door's a bit slow (or broken) when they just need to put a button. This can be seen on some routes where Southern and the Tube run side by side (eg. at West Brompton) or where London Overground lines share Tube routes (eg. via Queens Park et al). I doubt you'd really want to release AND open EMT Meridians' doors at each and every station they call at. For a start, it would add more strain to the air conditioning, door mechanisms and so on, which could be reduced in a less intensive operating environment.

By far the worst stock I have found for the proportions of doors opening (not the actual number, eg. with Pacers) would have to be the SWT Class 159s, where it seems there are very few places for you to actually board or alight! Maybe it's a strange Stagecoach thing... ...see also the ex-SWT 442s' slam doors...

 

[Wolfie]

By far the worst stock I have found for the proportions of doors opening (not the actual number, eg. with Pacers) would have to be the SWT Class 159s, where it seems there are very few places for you to actually board or alight! Maybe it's a strange Stagecoach thing... ...see also the ex-SWT 442s' slam doors...

442s with slam doors???

 

[Blamethrower]

Not sure why you feel you are unlucky to use these units regularly, personally I think that in terms of interior, ride comfort and acceleration, nothing touches the 222.

I know what you mean about the extra door though, in rush hour commutes, this means that it takes far too long for people looking to get out at that end of the coach. it normally ends up with those from the buffet coach often having to wait until the entire other carriage has emptied.

Much like the first door on HST's, it's perfectly servicable, maybe it's an 'elf n safety thing

 

[trentside]

Some Bombardier mainline stock can do it, but it's generally not used or disabled. I don't know if this applies to Meridians

Meridians have an unusual system for door release. Essentially, the driver has to select the required SDO (Selective Door Opening) in the cab, which then allows the TM to release the doors (indicated by their door release buttons flashing) - I don't believe it's possible for all the doors to be opened. The closing procedure with the local door always looks quite complicated to me - and involves turning a key off and on, for some reason!

 

[387star]

442s with slam doors???

The guards van is/was a slam door

They are basically slam door trains modified

 

[Wolfie]

The guards van is/was a slam door

They are basically slam door trains modified

Ah, all is now clear, assuming the "modification" you mention was done at the design/construction stage...

I know the 442s are Mk3 variants and that Mk3s in general have slam doors. What had thrown me was the previous slam door comment, given that other folk had suggested that, because of the 442's power doors, they be adapted for use with HST power in Scotland....

 

[Crossover]

Some Bombardier mainline stock can do it, but it's generally not used or disabled. I don't know if this applies to Meridians.

There can be issues of consistency - for example, if at some stations doors open automatically, but at others they don't, passengers can end up dithering for quite a while thinking the door's a bit slow (or broken) when they just need to put a button. This can be seen on some routes where Southern and the Tube run side by side (eg. at West Brompton) or where London Overground lines share Tube routes (eg. via Queens Park et al). I doubt you'd really want to release AND open EMT Meridians' doors at each and every station they call at. For a start, it would add more strain to the air conditioning, door mechanisms and so on, which could be reduced in a less intensive operating environment.

By far the worst stock I have found for the proportions of doors opening (not the actual number, eg. with Pacers) would have to be the SWT Class 159s, where it seems there are very few places for you to actually board or alight! Maybe it's a strange Stagecoach thing... ...see also the ex-SWT 442s' slam doors...

There may be a H&S element to it too in case anyone is leaning on the door not expecting it to open. On the newer stuff I am sure it can be done at depot to make all doors open, probably via TMS or similar. Older stuff probably doesn't have that luxury.

I haven't travelled on a 159 before, but I seem to recall mention of the front doors being locked OOU on them so that a driver can use the front doors if needing to go to a SPT or similar without having to get the guard to watch the doors in case someone falls out, since the 158/159's don't have cab doors

Not sure why you feel you are unlucky to use these units regularly, personally I think that in terms of interior, ride comfort and acceleration, nothing touches the 222.

I'd have to agree - from a passenger viewpoint, the Meridians are good units. Makes you wonder what went so wrong with the Voyagers :P

 

[starrymarkb]

By far the worst stock I have found for the proportions of doors opening (not the actual number, eg. with Pacers) would have to be the SWT Class 159s, where it seems there are very few places for you to actually board or alight! Maybe it's a strange Stagecoach thing... ...see also the ex-SWT 442s' slam doors...

Specified by NSE when new as the driver doesn't have a separate door to go trackside. As to why, 159s do a lot of running over third rail, far more then any other sprinter. 442s obviously do all their running over third rail.

 

[Hairy Bear]

Hello all,

I am unlucky enough to use these trains fairly regularly and have always wondered why there is one set of doors in the buffet car that are only used to get the trolley on and off?

I often catch the train at Loughborough and there is simply not enough time booked for the number of passengers getting on and off, on one occasion I saw a member of train staff open the door to speed boarding so my question is:

1) Why is it designed to be different?
2) Why is it not opened manually more often?

Cheers
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also - while we're at it, why do TMs not open all doors when arriving at a busy station rather than just unlocking them? Is this not possible on 222s?

Door release is only given to unlock them, they cannot automatically open you have to press the button. This helps stop the aircon fighting an open dooor when it might not be even used. Thats why they automatically shut after 2 mins.

There would be if you spaced yourselves out along the platform taking note which end is first and not try to all board through one door. using all the 8 doors on a 5 car available. If you look towards the traincrew you might notice us going 'BAAAA' as that what alot of passengers behave like.
The reason the door against the buffet does not open is that it requires a key to open it and a member of staff to do so.

 

[ECML180]

Not sure why you feel you are unlucky to use these units regularly, personally I think that in terms of interior, ride comfort and acceleration, nothing touches the 222.

I'd have to agree - from a passenger viewpoint, the Meridians are good units. Makes you wonder what went so wrong with the Voyagers :P

It's always going to be subjective thing! But personally I find the interior of them feels quite cramped and with the large pillars between windows there are not actually that many good seats. Personally I'd prefer the HSTs as I find them more comfortable and much quieter too.

I know what you mean about the extra door though, in rush hour commutes, this means that it takes far too long for people looking to get out at that end of the coach. it normally ends up with those from the buffet coach often having to wait until the entire other carriage has emptied.

Considering that on busy trains that the buffet is first choice standing room on a busy service it doesn't make much sense...especially given that the buffet always seems to be shut!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Door release is only given to unlock them, they cannot automatically open you have to press the button. This helps stop the aircon fighting an open dooor when it might not be even used. Thats why they automatically shut after 2 mins.

I don't see it being such a problem as you would only release at most stations but 'open all' where it is busy, basically wherever all the doors would be opened anyway.

There would be if you spaced yourselves out along the platform taking note which end is first and not try to all board through one door. using all the 8 doors on a 5 car available.

You can't really expect the passengers to be evenly distributed amongst the doors when few will be using first and given weather conditions may will wait under cover or in waiting rooms. It certainly does not help matters that first can be at either end of the train and that the announcements don't always get the end right.

The reason the door against the buffet does not open is that it requires a key to open it and a member of staff to do so.

Is there not a member of staff who can position themselves there? How hard is it to change the key lock for the standard button panel? If that's the only barrier to overcome it should not be difficult.

 

[cjmillsnun]

442s with slam doors???

Guards door.