Class 220/1 mystery

[ukrob]

But not without them or whatever they're working with being modified beforehand (the sleeper was using the towbar, not the normal couplers - use that logic and everything with a cab is a loco)



What about them? :?

I was responding to the claim that they "have never been seen on anything other than that (fixed formation passenger service with HST trailers)". The NMT was included because it previously had MkII trailers in it.

I showed that they had, and THEN the goalposts were moved. I thought that was quite obvious from reading the thread, but apparently not

 

[Geezertronic]

Also heard today that they managed to persuade Alstom to keep the opportunity to add the remaining 390 coaches open until June, so when IEP gets shelved after the election the coaches can be ordered then. VT is keen to order them off its own back, it doesn't want the logistical nightmare of having two separate fleets.

Are you saying that Virgin want to order enough extra coaches to increase the existing fleet of 52 x 390s to 11 coaches plus the extra 4 x 390 x 11 coaches? How would that work when the franchise goes up for renewall? Would Angel Trains "fund" the cost of these vehicles?

 

[Voyager 2093]

Are you saying that Virgin want to order enough extra coaches to increase the existing fleet of 52 x 390s to 11 coaches plus the extra 4 x 390 x 11 coaches? How would that work when the franchise goes up for renewall? Would Angel Trains "fund" the cost of these vehicles?

Well it all depends on if the franchise bid is successful. Providing its successful Angel Trains will 'fund' these vehicles and Virgin will lease the 'new' 390s from them.

 

[starrymarkb]

Why don't you think they will get the franchise again?

VT and the DfT are not best friends - why do you think the DfT put the testing of the lengthened 390s out to tender. No-one else was interested but the DfT were trying their damnedest not to give it to Virgin!

 

[Pumbaa]

Are you saying that Virgin want to order enough extra coaches to increase the existing fleet of 52 x 390s to 11 coaches plus the extra 4 x 390 x 11 coaches? How would that work when the franchise goes up for renewall? Would Angel Trains "fund" the cost of these vehicles?

Yes. It has firm DfT disproval, but VT are determined to get all their sets to 11-car. Their main argument being it's completely stupid to upgrade the WCML at such a high cost to a reasonable standard, and then muck it up again by being short-sighted and only lengthening some trains. Financial arrangement is expected that ROSCO picks up the tab, but they have said they will fund them themselves if necessary, providing they get the franchise again when it's relet.

So we can safely say no extra coaches will be ordered on top of whats already coming!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

VT and the DfT are not best friends - why do you think the DfT put the testing of the lengthened 390s out to tender. No-one else was interested but the DfT were trying their damnedest not to give it to Virgin!

Absolutely - the list is endless of how VT and DfT have rubbed each other up the wrong way. Plus VT have had the WC on a management contract for more than 50% of the time they've had it, I can imagine nothing would make DfT happier than seeing Beardie's dismayed face on the day they announce the new operator!

 

[Dreadnought]

Absolutely - the list is endless of how VT and DfT have rubbed each other up the wrong way. Plus VT have had the WC on a management contract for more than 50% of the time they've had it, I can imagine nothing would make DfT happier than seeing Beardie's dismayed face on the day they announce the new operator!

How childish is that!! So even if VT put in the best bid for ICWC you say they still won't get it.

As for running it on a management contract isn't that because for the majority of the franchise the WCML has been a shambolic building site and the goalposts that the franchise were let on moved. Even now despite all the hype that it was completed in December 2008 it still closes at weekends and is still 'falling over' on a regular basis.

 

[O L Leigh]

Opening up old can of worms

If you recall the HST also used to be classed as a DEMU, 253 and 254's (depending on length). Don't know why they ceased to be classed as DEMU's may GUESS is because the formations changed too much. Imagine if the 91's had been classed as EMU as they are about as fixed in thier formation as the HST's were in thier day.

Yes, but that's off topic (as is most of the rest of the thread).

O L Leigh

 

[bluebottle]

On the unit numbering issue, wasn't there a BMU at one point, a battery multiple unit. Any idea what that counted as?

There was, it never made it to the point where it would have received a TOPS classification though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_BEMU