Class 20s from different depots

[Rover]

I've been studying Roger Harris's "Allocation History of BR Diesels and Electrics (3rd edition)" and from my own observations in the 1980s there are occasions when class 20s have been observed supposedly allocated to different depots e.g. 20019+20056 Toton and Bescot respectively throughout November 1985 on Toton diagrams. Would this have actually have happened or would it have been extremely unlikely?

Thanks.

 

[neilmc]

I just wonder whether a lone class 20 wandering the system could have been collared by a depot and linked up to one of its own locos to form a pair working in multiple, but only the "home" loco being input to TOPS so the foreigner would disappear off the radar until someone noticed it was missing! Just like in steam days when a handy loco sent long distance would be commandeered by a depot for local use rather than being sent back speedily! Wishful thinking probably!

 

[Rover]

Yes, an interesting comment. Though class 20s were not normally "lone", though one could have required an exam, been separated from it's pal and then used by the other depot.

 

[43096]

I've been studying Roger Harris's "Allocation History of BR Diesels and Electrics (3rd edition)" and from my own observations in the 1980s there are occasions when class 20s have been observed supposedly allocated to different depots e.g. 20019+20056 Toton and Bescot respectively throughout November 1985 on Toton diagrams. Would this have actually have happened or would it have been extremely unlikely?

Thanks.

It could easily happen if one loco of a pair needed and exam or failed. So, to use your example, a Toton pair could work to Bescot, one of them be found to be defective and the defective one swapped for a Bescot loco for the return. There could also be short-term loans between depots that would likely never get picked up by the stock changes in the magazines.

 

[Rover]

It could easily happen if one loco of a pair needed and exam or failed. So, to use your example, a Toton pair could work to Bescot, one of them be found to be defective and the defective one swapped for a Bescot loco for the return. There could also be short-term loans between depots that would likely never get picked up by the stock changes in the magazines.

Good points, I can safely assume then that although it wasn't very common there were occasions when it would probably have happened.

 

[exbrel]

we had 20's in Crewe rail works for heavy/int/light maintenance, on release could they have been used on "earn your keep/make yourself useful" duties on their way back to their home shed?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Yes, an interesting comment. Though class 20s were not normally "lone", though one could have required an exam, been separated from it's pal and then used by the other depot.

Perhaps not often 'lone' in some parts but they often worked in that guise Scotland

 

[Strathclyder]

Perhaps not often 'lone' in some parts but they often worked in that guise Scotland

Indeed. Attached are two images of single 20s at work in Scotland dating from June 1968 (courtesy of Eastbank.org.uk) at Polmadie & Dalmuir respectively.

While I've identified the Polmadie loco as D8122/20122 (which was new to Polmadie and spent the majority of it's career in Scotland, barring a stint south of the border as part of the Nottingham division from November 1969 to November 1973), the Dalmuir loco I'm unable to identify with any certainty (no doubt due to my rubbish eyesight lol). If anyone can make the number out, I'd be most grateful.

 

[D6130]

If anyone can make the number out, I'd be most grateful.

Wouldn't swear to it, but it looks a wee bit like D8091 (Eastfield, 65A). It's working an Esso oil tank trip from Bowling....possibly to Yoker Yard for the nearby power station, which closed in 1976, although, if that were the case, it's going the long way round via Anniesland and Hyndland West Junction. Alternatively, it may be loco fuel for Eastfield....and possibly other depots in the Glasgow area. @Cheshire Scot may have a better idea.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Wouldn't swear to it, but it looks a wee bit like D8091 (Eastfield, 65A). It's working an Esso oil tank trip from Bowling....possibly to Yoker Yard for the nearby power station, which closed in 1976, although, if that were the case, it's going the long way round via Anniesland and Hyndland West Junction. Alternatively, it may be loco fuel for Eastfield....and possibly other depots in the Glasgow area. @Cheshire Scot may have a better idea.

Sorry, not much further info. I can't recall exactly where was supplied from Bowling - in the seventies Oban (Wilsons) and Mallaig were and Fort William for loco fuel and they would all be tripped via Cadder Yard, or in the sixties possibly via Yoker Yard.
Eastfield or other BR depot would be a possible or just a trip to serve multiple destinations from the main yard. Can't recall off hand where other Esso distribution depots were, and quite possibly different back then anyway.

 

[leezer3]

I think D8091 is unlikely.

This pic shows it had Blue-Star bufferbeam emblems and black ringed headcode disks a few years later (unlikely to have had a major repaint, as it's got the painted out D on the cab):

28/08/1973 - Darnall. Sheffield, South Yorkshire.

Best viewed Original size. A pair of Class 30 locomotives (8091 & 8128) run light atDarnall - 28/08/1973. 8091 head recently been transferred from ScR stock, whilst 8128 was one of the batch delivered transferred to Barrow Hill to replace Claytons Type 1s. © 2017 - Ian Fleming / 53A Models of...

www.flickr.com

 

[D6130]

This pic shows it had Blue-Star bufferbeam emblems and black ringed headcode disks a few years later (unlikely to have had a major repaint, as it's got the painted out D on the cab):

True. Maybe D8081? Difficult to read as I can't enlarge the photo.

 

[Strathclyder]

True. Maybe D8081? Difficult to read as I can't enlarge the photo.

Completely forgot to link the original image URL; here yon go. Squinting at the image when enlarged (the last two digits are the ones that are throwing me off the most here), I am reasonably certain that it's either D8081/82 or D8088. Am open to be corrected here of course.

 

[86247]

To my eyesight looks like the last digit is a 4 as you can see a straight line going across at the bottom.

 

[D6968]

From what one of my friends (who was a part owner of a Class 20) he said certain combos worked better than others, he did mention that sometimes locos could ‘fight’ each other when in multiple

 

[Taunton]

Completely forgot to link the original image URL; here yon go. Squinting at the image when enlarged (the last two digits are the ones that are throwing me off the most here), I am reasonably certain that it's either D8081/82 or D8088. Am open to be corrected here of course.

I think 8082/3 were the two that were fitted with high level air brake pipes at the cab end to enable them to move Blue Trains across the connecting line between the south and north Clydeside networks, before they were joined up in the late 1970s. So not that. Before they were equipped like that the task was entrusted to one of the last Caley 4-4-0s left that was still fitted with Westinghouse train brakes.

Just in passing, the first time I ever visited Glasgow, and walked out for a moment onto Glasgow Bridge on a weekday morning, just then by absolute chance these two were taking a Blue Train set north over the High Street line bridge in the distance.

From what one of my friends (who was a part owner of a Class 20) he said certain combos worked better than others, he did mention that sometimes locos could ‘fight’ each other when in multiple

This is something that was apparently present from the start, when the first two locos were connected in multiple they set off in opposite directions. Must have had doubts for the test, as they were only connected with the jumpers, not coupled. It was described in a magazine at the time.

 

[D6130]

I think 8082/3 were the two that were fitted with high level air brake pipes at the cab end to enable them to move Blue Trains across the connecting line between the south and north Clydeside networks, before they were joined up in the late 1970s.

That was 8085 and 8086. They were still used to transfer units between Hyndland and Shields depots and to/from Glasgow Works well into the 1980s. I remember seeing and hearing them whistling slowly down the depot branch from my flat in Hyndland, towing one or two 303s, just after midnight one day a week....but I can't remember which day!

 

[Rover]

This is something that was apparently present from the start, when the first two locos were connected in multiple they set off in opposite directions. Must have had doubts for the test, as they were only connected with the jumpers, not coupled. It was described in a magazine at the time.

Fascinating, I'd never heard that before, it must have been quite amusing to witness.

 

[Taunton]

Fascinating, I'd never heard that before, it must have been quite amusing to witness.

The logic is actually more difficult than might be initially thought, as locos, or dmus, can be either way round, have approached previously from the same or opposite directions, relays can stick on one, individual wire connections can fail, etc.

Having said that, there's plenty of experience of it, which one would have thought English Electric would have already mastered. Frank Sprague in the USA is generally credited with devising the concept shortly before 1900, on emu cars.

 

[43096]

The logic is actually more difficult than might be initially thought, as locos, or dmus, can be either way round, have approached previously from the same or opposite directions, relays can stick on one, individual wire connections can fail, etc.

Having said that, there's plenty of experience of it, which one would have thought English Electric would have already mastered. Frank Sprague in the USA is generally credited with devising the concept shortly before 1900, on emu cars.

It can be as simple as the forward and reverse wires aren’t crossed over at the appropriate point in the loco or jumper cable.

 

[Taunton]

... it must have been quite amusing to witness.

I bet the engineer in charge of the test and the English Electric representative didn't think so!

 

[Pigeon]

It can be as simple as the forward and reverse wires aren't crossed over at the appropriate point in the loco or jumper cable.

That would have been only a rather crass wiring error in construction, though. If they were uncertain enough that they didn't hook up the mechanical coupling on the first test I'd have at least expected them to check for obvious dumb mistakes.