Class 185 maintenance during Hatfield closure

[ryan125hst]

With the line through Hatfield closed, First Transpennine Express are running a replacement bus service between Doncaster and Scunthorpe. They are then running a shuttle service between Scunthorpe and Cleethorpes.

What I was wondering is how are they maintaining the trains? I believe that there is a depot for basic servicing at Cleethorpes (presumably for fuelling, tanking, CET emptying and cleaning), but how are they getting the trains to their main depot (I believe it is in Manchester) when they need something bigger doing to them?

As far as I know, they will be fuelled, cleaned, tanked e.t.c daily, but what needs doing to them at larger maintenance depots and how often? How are they getting the trains to the depot? I wondered if they are sending them via Brigg and Retford, and this was confirmed when I saw it on Real Time Trains on Saturday night, but I didn't see a return working on the Monday morning.

Is this disruption causing any problems with the maintenance of the Class 185trains (and Class 170's if they are also being used on the Cleethorpes services)?

Thanks

Ryan

 

[Pumbaa]

They only got them cleared to run via Brigg about a week after the incident, took a while to get all the paperwork done for some reason. I don't know how the paths work though.

 

[Cab2Cab]

With the line through Hatfield closed, First Transpennine Express are running a replacement bus service between Doncaster and Scunthorpe. They are then running a shuttle service between Scunthorpe and Cleethorpes.

What I was wondering is how are they maintaining the trains? I believe that there is a depot for basic servicing at Cleethorpes (presumably for fuelling, tanking, CET emptying and cleaning), but how are they getting the trains to their main depot (I believe it is in Manchester) when they need something bigger doing to them?

As far as I know, they will be fuelled, cleaned, tanked e.t.c daily, but what needs doing to them at larger maintenance depots and how often? How are they getting the trains to the depot? I wondered if they are sending them via Brigg and Retford, and this was confirmed when I saw it on Real Time Trains on Saturday night, but I didn't see a return working on the Monday morning.

Is this disruption causing any problems with the maintenance of the Class 185trains (and Class 170's if they are also being used on the Cleethorpes services)?

Thanks

Ryan

Hi,

There is a depot at york, i think i have seen TPE units in there,

I think the depot is owned or leased by Siemens,

Can anyone clarify this?,

I think Alstom have a depot just outside Wakefield at crofton, not sure but i think they service the 180's,

Cheers

 

[ryan125hst]

There is a depot at york, i think i have seen TPE units in there,

I think the depot is owned or leased by Siemens,

Can anyone clarify this?,

I can confirm that there is a depot owned by Siemens at York, but I'm not sure what they do there.

Does anyone know whether it is just light maintainance, or does heavier work get carried out there?

 

[ainsworth74]

I think Alstom have a depot just outside Wakefield at crofton, not sure but i think they service the 180's

All the 180s are dealt with at Old Oak or Heaton these days I believe. Crofton I think handle the TPE 170s and that might be it.

 

[YorkshireBear]

All the 180s are dealt with at Old Oak or Heaton these days I believe. Crofton I think handle the TPE 170s and that might be it.

I believe* crofton also handles XC voyagers and is owned by Bombardier. (hence two types of Bombardier rolling stock going there).

*i believe a lot of things.

 

[Cab2Cab]

I believe* crofton also handles XC voyagers and is owned by Bombardier. (hence two types of Bombardier rolling stock going there).

*i believe a lot of things.

HI,

Thanks for the update,

Do you know of a DRS depot or booking on point at Rotherham, (your homezone)
Job advertised for a support engineer, maintenance working out of Rotherham depot,

any idea's, perhaps the Aldwarke steel terminal?..........

cheers

 

[ainsworth74]

I believe* crofton also handles XC voyagers and is owned by Bombardier. (hence two types of Bombardier rolling stock going there).

Hmm I thought the all the Voyagers were dealt with down at Central Rivers? So I'm not sure that htey do. The HT 222s were handled (and dropped) at Crofton, where are the EMT 222s worked on?

 

[Jordeh]

Hmm I thought the all the Voyagers were dealt with down at Central Rivers? So I'm not sure that htey do. The HT 222s were handled (and dropped) at Crofton, where are the EMT 222s worked on?

Derby Etches Park

 

[ainsworth74]

Derby Etches Park

Oh of course! Not sure how I forgot that So unless Crofton have a few XC 220/221s that aren't being dealt with at Central Rivers (which I don't think is the case) then that leaves only the TPE 170s being serviced there these days.

 

[Cab2Cab]

Hmm I thought the all the Voyagers were dealt with down at Central Rivers? So I'm not sure that htey do. The HT 222s were handled (and dropped) at Crofton, where are the EMT 222s worked on?

Hi.

I assume Derby etches park for main servicing, although you do see them at Eastcroft (Nottingham) in the day in between turns, might get refueled etc, i think it's just to keep the station clear of congestion, although EMT have staff at Neville Hill so who knows?

Cheers

 

[ainsworth74]

although EMT have staff at Neville Hill so who knows?

NL is for EMT HSTs only, don't think 222s ever get up there.

 

[JonathanH]

I believe* crofton also handles XC voyagers and is owned by Bombardier. (hence two types of Bombardier rolling stock going there).

*i believe a lot of things.

Realtimetrains can be used to see what Crofton depot sends out each day:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced?location=xrf&date=08%2F03%2F2013&tocs=All&timespan=1&show_schedules=11&schedule_type=0&show_wtt=1&show_var=1&show_stp=1
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They only got them cleared to run via Brigg about a week after the incident, took a while to get all the paperwork done for some reason. I don't know how the paths work though.

A swap scheduled for Saturday by the looks of things

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced?location=Cleethorpes&date=09%2F03%2F2013&tocs=All&timespan=1&show_schedules=11&schedule_type=0&show_wtt=1&show_var=1&show_stp=1

An empty TP working either way from Sheffield via Brigg

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Servicing is the day to day overnight stuff, fuel, cet, cleaning, washer bottles etc. may include a and b exams. please don't confuse it with overhaul and maintenance.

Crofton is used by xc for servicing voyagers due to start or finish their diagrams at Leeds or York. It is also where TPE 170's are based. These will receive heavier work here and can be offered to other stock if needed (remember hulls written off 222?)

Xc also get their units serviced at Tyne yard, longsight, central rivers, laira and craigentinny amongst other locations. Old oak and eastleigh were used back in virgin days but dont know if these locations are still used. 185's are allocated ardwick but are serviced and receive light repairs at York, they also fuel and service northern rail units that overnight in York. 185's also get serviced in barrow, polmadie, Heaton, Blackpool cs and Cleethorpes. Not all locations have toilet tanking.

There is also a diversion available around the lock to get units back to ardwick if necessary but due to congestion this option will most likely be used for nighttime

 

[GNERman]

I think Alstom have a depot just outside Wakefield at crofton, not sure but i think they service the 180's

All the 180s are dealt with at Old Oak or Heaton these days I believe. Crofton I think handle the TPE 170s and that might be it.

Incorrect. Crofton is the base for Grand Central's West Riding Class 180's, there's normally two there every night. Although it is only light maintenance with Heaton doing the heavy maintenance.

As for other TOC's it looks like 3 XC Voyagers and 1 TPE 170 are based at Crofton each night, with ECS paths for Sheffield, York and Leeds for XC and Hull for TPE.

 

[IanXC]

As for other TOC's it looks like 3 XC Voyagers and 1 TPE 170 are based at Crofton each night, with ECS paths for Sheffield, York and Leeds for XC and Hull for TPE.

I seem to recall the path from Hull is usually used by units in multiple. I've seen certainly seen 3x 170s being coupled up at Hull in the evening.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Hmm I thought the all the Voyagers were dealt with down at Central Rivers? So I'm not sure that htey do. The HT 222s were handled (and dropped) at Crofton, where are the EMT 222s worked on?

I meant overnight stabling like has been confirmed further down the thread. Just for services finishing and starting in the area.

 

[83G/84D]

Servicing is the day to day overnight stuff, fuel, cet, cleaning, washer bottles etc. may include a and b exams. please don't confuse it with overhaul and maintenance.

Crofton is used by xc for servicing voyagers due to start or finish their diagrams at Leeds or York. It is also where TPE 170's are based. These will receive heavier work here and can be offered to other stock if needed (remember hulls written off 222?)

Xc also get their units serviced at Tyne yard, longsight, central rivers, laira and craigentinny amongst other locations. Old oak and eastleigh were used back in virgin days but dont know if these locations are still used. 185's are allocated ardwick but are serviced and receive light repairs at York, they also fuel and service northern rail units that overnight in York. 185's also get serviced in barrow, polmadie, Heaton, Blackpool cs and Cleethorpes. Not all locations have toilet tanking.

There is also a diversion available around the lock to get units back to ardwick if necessary but due to congestion this option will most likely be used for nighttime

XC Voyagers (normally 2 sets) serviced overnight at Long Rock(Penzance). They are brought on and off depot by XC drivers then moved around the depot by FGW drivers under a special safety case.

 

[swt_passenger]

Old oak and Eastleigh were used back in virgin days but dont know if these locations are still used.

Eastleigh is well used now, I think it's 7 or maybe even 8 XC units visit most nights, which is significantly more than a few years back due to the timetable changes such as the 2 hourly Southampton extensions. A few used Three Bridges back when XC still ran on the Brighton line, but now Eastleigh is the sole servicing location on the SE leg of their network...

 

[corin paul]

You have forgot the main question. Class 185s are sent back from Cleethorpes to Manchester or York via Brigg, Gainsborough and Doncaster lines. After that I don't know if there is a schedule for maintenance.

Cleethorpes fueling point.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/class_153/8174595071/in/set-72157631980296676/

 

[Boothby97]

You have forgot the main question. Class 185s are sent back from Cleethorpes to Manchester or York via Brigg, Gainsborough and Doncaster lines. After that I don't know if there is a schedule for maintenance.

Cleethorpes fueling point.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/class_153/8174595071/in/set-72157631980296676/

Not sent back via Doncaster, they are routed via Barnetby, Brigg, Gainsborough and Retford to Sheffield.
185124 left Cleethorpes today, it running as 5T99 18:14 Cleethorpes-Sheffield.
185119 has arrived at Cleethorpes today, it ran as 5T90 15:30 Sheffield-Cleethorpes.

The swaps are in system to run Saturdays only, from 02/03/13 to 15/06/13. Timings as follows (for next week, but you can change the date at the end of the HTML for other dates, as long as they are Saturdays)
5T90 (Sheffield-Cleethorpes)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/schedule/Y02544/2013-03-16/

5T99 (Cleethorpes-Sheffield)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/schedule/Y02545/2013-03-16/

The unit on 5T99, then goes on to form a TPE service to Manchester Airport.

The maintenance at Cleethorpes is basic, but the 185s can last. I am hoping that 170s get sent down here, will benefit others. I believe the depot only does wash and fuel, not sure about the toilets.
As for the 153 (not sure which one it is for the next week) on the Barton shuttle, this I believe is also visiting the depot.

Thanls, Sam

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

XC Voyagers (normally 2 sets) serviced overnight at Long Rock(Penzance). They are brought on and off depot by XC drivers then moved around the depot by FGW drivers under a special safety case.

May I beg permission to make a somewhat historical off-topic request on this thread to ask what maintenance and fuelling points were employed to service those items of rolling stock that were isolated on the isle of Anglesey when the fire affected the rail bridge over the Menai Straits.

 

[David Barrett]

Cleethorpes does servicing on Class 185s only for contractual reasons. Ardwick, York and Cleethorpes are operated by Siemens who have a "Design, Build and Maintain" contract with TPEX and their class 185s. This is why no 170s finish or commence their diagrams at Cleethorpes, different provider and arrangements, even though the use of 170s would make sense on the Scunthorpe Shuttles until the restoration of the line at Hatfield. Cleethorpes is York's only contact with South Trans Pennine from where a Fitter is sent on a nightly basis to carry out minor checks and running repairs to the four units which usually stable overnight.

In my opinion a restrictive and hidebound practice which may work well enough in Franchise Utopia but falls at the first hurdle in the event of out of course events.

 

[ainsworth74]

Has it failed so far? Have any 185s been left out of service due to lack of maintenance?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Has it failed so far? Have any 185s been left out of service due to lack of maintenance?

Oh come on, that's no way to reply to a daily mail style comment!!! Logic and reasoning... you should know better.

185s have one of the most reliable fleets in the country, therefore i see that maintenance is easily adequate and is currently adequate despite the out of course events you refer to.

 

[David Barrett]

Who mentioned lack of maintenance?

 

[455driver]

Re man in van-

In my opinion a restrictive and hidebound practice which may work well enough in Franchise Utopia but falls at the first hurdle in the event of out of course events.

Yeah its not like any other TOC uses a bloke in a van to run around the stabling points doing light repairs is it! :roll:

This is a very well established practice and has been going on for years and will still be going on in several years time.

 

[David Barrett]

Re man in van-



Yeah its not like any other TOC uses a bloke in a van to run around the stabling points doing light repairs is it! :roll:

This is a very well established practice and has been going on for years and will still be going on in several years time.

Indeed, you are talking to one who has been the "Man with the van" so no argument there, and no criticism made of the system on my part, just a comment on flexibility in the event of contingencies really, no offence meant but it seems that a few assumptions have been made about something which I did not say or imply, now where's that Daily Mail.

 

[YorkshireBear]

In my opinion a restrictive and hidebound practice which may work well enough in Franchise Utopia but falls at the first hurdle in the event of out of course events.

This is what we picked up on.
Explain to me where it has fallen to support your point?

 

[David Barrett]

This is what we picked up on.
Explain to me where it has fallen to support your point?

A comment had been made earlier in the thread to the effect that 170s may be a better option on the current Scunthorpe Shuttles which may be helpful elsewhere and indeed loadings over this section of route have been depressed because of recent events making the 185s more than a little on the generous side for the traffic on offer. The reason as to why this may not happen being that the fleet hire and maintenance arrangements do not lend themselves to such flexibility.

Now I would respectfully ask that someone could explain the use of the terms "Fail" or "Lack of maintenance" with respect to my original ramblings.