Class 185 future

[Meerkat]

This is what happens when you have a fragmented railway system, with no national railway operator no thought is given to what to do with units once their original purpose has been usurped or disappeared.

The sort of national operator that might build loads of steam engines then scrap them soon after, buy lots of diesels for traffic that is about to disappear, and buy loads of diesels that didn't even work?

 

[LittleAH]

This is what happens when you have a fragmented railway system, with no national railway operator no thought is given to what to do with units once their original purpose has been usurped or disappeared.

A reminder. TPE wanted to just bring in 802s. The DfT stipulated within the franchise agreement that there had to be loco hauled rolling stock and extra capacity by a certain time.

 

[mike57]

The sort of national operator that might build loads of steam engines then scrap them soon after, buy lots of diesels for traffic that is about to disappear, and buy loads of diesels that didn't even work?

A reminder. TPE wanted to just bring in 802s. The DfT stipulated within the franchise agreement that there had to be loco hauled rolling stock and extra capacity by a certain time.

I agree, and when the same mistakes are made time and time again over 60+ years one has to wonder at the competance of those actually making the decisions (sorry, forgot, politicians, I rest my case...). Every person or organisation can make mistakes, but to keep making the same mistakes over time just seems incredible.

TPE were in trouble with training and resources during late 2019 and were struggling to introduce the new stuff, with loads of cancellations due to it. Covid actually took the spot light off it, and once covid was no longer an issue TPE were in trouble again.

As for the future of 185s, my guess is they will stay with TPE or whatever TPE becomes for the foreseeable future, and Mk5s + 68 will always be a white elephant looking for a home, we went shopping by train into Scarborough on Sunday, and there were 3 units parked up lights out not being used.

Obviously in a sane world TPE would have used the Mk3s + DVT + 68s that they played with briefly as a stop gap crowd buster between York and Manchester while they waited for 802s, which would then take over all long distance services including Anglo-Scottish as they were delivered, with 185s carrying on the stopping/semi fast services, pending partial replacement by EMUs once Leeds Manchester is electrified, and probably finishing up their time at the edges of the network on things like the York Scarborough shuttle.

 

[tbtc]

A reminder. TPE wanted to just bring in 802s. The DfT stipulated within the franchise agreement that there had to be loco hauled rolling stock and extra capacity by a certain time.

Agreed, the Government created this situation by imposing an urgent deadline on when the new stock had to be introduced, “forcing” First to order three smaller fleets to try to get them faster than Hitachi would have taken to deliver a uniform fleet of 802s

I guess the idea was to free up most of the 185s as quickly as possible so that they could be cascaded, maybe if Covid hadn’t happened then someone would have snapped up dozens of 185s, but that obviously hasn’t happened

The 397s are regrettable but I can’t see the point in replacing them, the numbers are a pretty good fit for the routes they operate, there’s not a lot of places to cascade five coach 125mph pure EMUs right now (maybe in few years time once we wire up more other lines, but not any time soon)

However, this is a Government decision, ultimately, rather than something that First blundered into voluntarily

 

[LittleAH]

Obviously in a sane world TPE would have used the Mk3s + DVT + 68s that they played with briefly as a stop gap crowd buster between York and Manchester while they waited for 802s.

Wrong, they didn’t meet accessibility requirements and were quite rightfully binned off.

 

[mike57]

Wrong, they didn’t meet accessibility requirements and were quite rightfully binned off.

My view on that is that on the core route they would been fine, as a STOP GAP, why inconvenience 95% of people. There used to be 4 services per hour York - Manchester (2 Newcastle, 1 Scarborough, 1 Middlebr'h), people with accessibilty requirements could be booked on/use the other 3. Make provision for people with accessibilty requirements, but dont throw the baby out with the bath water. It would just have been while waiting for 802s to avoid just the situation that now exists.

 

[LowLevel]

My view on that is that on the core route they would been fine, as a STOP GAP, why inconvenience 95% of people. There used to be 4 services per hour York - Manchester (2 Newcastle, 1 Scarborough, 1 Middlebr'h), people with accessibilty requirements could be booked on/use the other 3. Make provision for people with accessibilty requirements, but dont throw the baby out with the bath water. It would just have been while waiting for 802s to avoid just the situation that now exists.

They only had one set of coaches from the Pretendolino set anyway, hardly earth shattering.

 

[dk1]

A reminder. TPE wanted to just bring in 802s. The DfT stipulated within the franchise agreement that there had to be loco hauled rolling stock and extra capacity by a certain time.

DfT meddling seems to crop up time & time again