Class 185 Extension

[MCR247]

i think the ideal unit for TPE, if you had infill electrification, would be a 444 but wired for 25kV AC overhead. 3 Standard, 1 buffet standard, 1 first.

Personally I'd go with 4 car units, because you can double them up to 8 car, but 10 car may be too much

 

[Nym]

10 car would be too long for most platforms on the TPE N Network, 8 car would fit quite nicely. And would be a good length.

 

[Waverley125]

Dewsbury & Garforth definitely don't have room for 8 coaches iirc, I think 6 would be the maximum you could get in. That said, it shouldn't be too hard, all we really need is:

-double train lenth
-end doors (it's not a commuter service, a stop every 20 mins is fine for end doors)
-proper onboard buffet

 

[boing_uk]

Dewsbury & Garforth definitely don't have room for 8 coaches iirc,

Neither do Grimsby or Scunthorpe, Poluton le Fylde, Chorley or Horwich Parkway. And I am sure there are plenty of others.

 

[WillPS]

-end doors (it's not a commuter service, a stop every 20 mins is fine for end doors)

Disagree strongly. Compare a Peak TransPennine service at, say Manchester Piccadilly with a Peak EMT 158 service at the same station.

The latter is hellish for dis/embarking passengers having to navigate standees and then single file through a door, and more importantly can take ages. A TransPennine service, conservatively, takes half like-for-like.

 

[Anvil1984]

Agreed, also Leeds would be a nightmare with end doors. Passengers use TPE to commute short distances (Leeds - Huddersfield / Dewsbury/ Garforth, Stalybridge to Manchester) at least half the services are not as "Intercity" as people would like to make out I'm afraid, the majority of the passengers on TPE North for example are probably only on the train for an hour - 90 mins so I don't see what end doors will be any use for except a longer dwell time at major stations.

As for short platforms, Chester Le Street (max 5 coaches), Yarm, Thrisk. Seamer, South Milford ( max 3 coaches, Sundays and Evenings) and possibly Mallton will not take 8 car trains and neither will Newcastle bay platforms so serivce would have to go somewhere else there

 

[Nym]

Neither do Grimsby or Scunthorpe, Poluton le Fylde, Chorley or Horwich Parkway. And I am sure there are plenty of others.

I'd said TPE N (North)

The smaller stations can use SDO or only open one set

 

[VP SCREAMER]

Hi all I am new to this so bear with me.... reading over this is very interesting indeed. The extension of the Class 185 will not happen now especially with the North West Electrification program, but things to note RE: The 'West Coast Franchise' this makes interesting reading, since out of the four successful bidders the current holders, being Virgin Rail Group/Stagecoach, then we have up for it are Keolis, First Group and Abellio. First Group may be seen as having a bit of a monopoly already, although rumours that First have not applied for an extension on the Great Western franchise is a considerable note to make. Keolis already have their fingers in the pies on the West Coast Main line with shares in First Transpennine and Go Via Group (London Midland, Southern, Southeastern, and Gatwick Express) and Abellio/Ned Rail run the suburban North West/East services so also have a strong chance.

Now the discussion of 390's and Voyagers being used on the route between Manchester and Scotland, yes Class 390's would be perfect to do the services on this route but at present only the four new builds for the new WC operator and the extension vehicles have been promised, and Virgin do not have enough to go round. What is interesting is that the MAN/SCOT services were part of the XC franchise once so being attached to the WC franchise would make sense.

According to the DFT they are hoping to give the franchise a shuffle round so there is a big potential. To me it would make sense if the TPE and WC franchises did merge so that bigger and more frequent trains could run on the ANGLO/SCOT services up the WCML. At present Voyagers and 185s run the main part of this route under wires (except 185s to MAN) and they are too small. As for extending the Voyagers.....that isn't going to happen, yes they were originally intended to have a 'shoe' for 3rd rail usage when they are on the south coast but that was taken out because of the delays it would have caused. And they are called DEMU's because they have an electro-mechanical gearbox....not hydraulic like traditional DMUs.....

So with all this in mind the race for the West Coast and the future of the 185's, Voyagers and 390's is all in the balance, because anyone who thinks that TPE or the 185's won't be affected in the new shake up is a fool.