Class 180's to.....Northern?

[1D53]

Vernon Barker, TPE big boss.

 

[1D53]

According to various sources 180103 is on its way from Wolverton to Newton Heath as I type.

 

[driver9000]

Ive heard 4 units are coming north, this is partly to ease Network Rails fears of a failed unit stopping the job as they can only work in multiple with another 180 or a 175. There is supposed to be one 'Thunderbird' 180 (for want of a better expression) to be stabled at each end of the line. I suppose the easier option would be to have the 180s following each other instead of having expensive trains lying around doing nothing.

 

[me123]

*Post removed: I am a divot *

 

[driver9000]

185103? That's "my" 103! What was she doing that's so noteworthy?

Travelling north to begin her new life in a strange land occupied by NorthernRail.

 

[me123]

Note; I just said 185. I am a divot sorry

 

[metrocammel]

I remember a press release coming out about two years ago stating TPE 'was looking to secure extra rolling stock (class 180's) for the new Manchester-Scotland' to quote it. This was the thing that announced TPE winning the ex-Virgin Cross Country route to Scotland. Nothing more came of that apart from the rumours about the TPE/FSR joint share of the units that were doing the rounds early last year.

If I'm not mistaken, there was once a rumour that TPE were after running trams in short formations between Manchester & Newcastle. Nothing came of that, and seen as all the PCs are taken! Seems TPE have quite a big 'rumour mill' at Bridgewater House.

 

[djw1981]

trams? PC? is that some kind of nickname for HST?

 

[1D53]

Yes it is.

 

[djw1981]

Hmmm you learn something new everyday. Can anyone explain the background? Since apart from when they were considered DMU's I can;t see how the two are at all similar.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Hmmm you learn something new everyday. Can anyone explain the background? Since apart from when they were considered DMU's I can;t see how the two are at all similar.

I believe this was a derogatory nickname "traditionalists" gave the HST in its early days due to the ease with which it can reverse, because of the 2 ends. These people obviously had never seen a 153... imagine their horror!

 

[class 313]

Hmmm you learn something new everyday. Can anyone explain the background? Since apart from when they were considered DMU's I can;t see how the two are at all similar.

Because back then, they went around in fixed formations. So like a tram really.

PC of course stands for Power Car.

 

[P156KWJ]

they weren't fully fixed obviously. Unless you mean the individual PCs weren't counted as locos (well they aren't now really!) as they were all 253XXX and 254XXX.

 

[class 313]

they weren't fully fixed obviously. Unless you mean the individual PCs weren't counted as locos (well they aren't now really!) as they were all 253XXX and 254XXX.

They are counted as locos now. Hence the class 43 classification. But when HSTs were first built, they were pretty much fully fixed. Hence the unit classification.

 

[Royston Vasey]

they weren't fully fixed obviously. Unless you mean the individual PCs weren't counted as locos (well they aren't now really!) as they were all 253XXX and 254XXX.

Let's not overanalyse, the nickname just reflects the culture shock between the HST formation c.f. a traditional loco and coaches.

 

[adamp]

Just to confirm things, is it definate Class 180s are coming to northern, being used on Manchester Vic - Blackpool services?

-Adam

 

[driver9000]

British Rail considered the HST to be a Multiple Unit, the power cars having the regional letter next to thier number like coaching stock did ie W43001. The class 253 was the Western Region 2+8 & the class 254 was the Eastern region 2+9. Another minor difference between the two classes were that class 253 had E70 brakes and class 254 had DW2 brakes. This didnt prevent them from interworking with each other though.

 

[class 313]

Just to confirm things, is it definate Class 180s are coming to northern, being used on Manchester Vic - Blackpool services?

-Adam

Yes.

 

[Royston Vasey]

British Rail considered the HST to be a Multiple Unit, the power cars having the regional letter next to thier number like coaching stock did ie W43001. The class 253 was the Western Region 2+8 & the class 254 was the Eastern region 2+9. Another minor difference between the two classes were that class 253 had E70 brakes and class 254 had DW2 brakes. This didnt prevent them from interworking with each other though.

Class 253 were originally 2+7, later lengthened to 2+8, I believe within not many years of introduction. Class 254 were 2+8, an extra buffet being the difference IIRC. It was GNER who lengthened them to 2+9, much later.

 

[delt1c]

They are counted as locos now. Hence the class 43 classification. But when HSTs were first built, they were pretty much fully fixed. Hence the unit classification.

Even when 1st introducd fixed formations were rare. It was not uncommon to see power cars from different units on the front and back of formations, never mind the trailers. Even when sets were being shown to the public prior to introduction it was often mixed sets.

 

[adamp]

Yep people, Class 180 was at Newton Heath around 16:00 today, its still there now.

 

[P156KWJ]

They are counted as locos now. Hence the class 43 classification. But when HSTs were first built, they were pretty much fully fixed. Hence the unit classification.

exactly which is why it's odd that when 2x class 43s are operating light engine their headcodes are 5xxx :???:

 

[1D53]

Here is a couple of photos from Newton Heath today showing 180103: http://jst.fotopic.net/c1592816.html

 

[P156KWJ]

looks strangely out of place

 

[adamp]

http://nwrp.fotopic.net/p54159818.html thats my best one.

-Adam

 

[adambro]

An interesting sight, will be even more so to see them in Huddersfield if they do end up other this way. What is the current status of this aspect?

 

[1D53]

An interesting sight, will be even more so to see them in Huddersfield if they do end up other this way. What is the current status of this aspect?

Current rumour is unlikely.

 

[devon_metro]

What a ridiculous turn of events. TPEx should get them for Glasgow services. Give Northern 170s if it keeps them happy.

 

[djw1981]

V is a classic - a 180 with 14x in ?merseyrail? yellow behind

 

[armdec]

Just shows what a lot of no marks there are on this forum!! 3 180s transferred to Northern (temporarily) 6 drivers trained to date and in service as stoppers on Man Vic to Blackpool North services.