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Class 175s to GWR
- Thread starter GEC465
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RailUK Forums
BillStampy
Established Member
5C26 was never meant to run regardless as 2C26 is currently booked to form off of the 5Z13 PLY - PLY (via PNZ) training run.
2C26 is 175001 as planned.
TastyMaltesers
Member
You might be disappointed given the introduction of 175s to Okey has been pushed back
GBM
Member
Oops. Apologies. Thanks for the correction
Apedlar12
Member
- Joined
- 13 Apr 2017
- Messages
- 835
They've never run on there in passenger service, only one training/testing working went there over a month ago.
End of next month is apparently when we should start to see them there.
I don't think the TfW 769s were ever intended to be a long-term fixture; weren't some them even supposed to enter service before the Arriva Trains Wales franchise ended? And then KeolisAmey won the contract for the next 15 year concession/franchise/thing with a mass-extinction bid (similar to Greater Anglia but with a few cascaded units from elsewhere rather than 100% new-build replacement stock)?
Except that sharing fleets across what are currently separately-branded operations (eg. Plymouth-Edinburgh, PAD-Penzance and Lincoln-KGX/STP) could save money in many cases, surely, by allowing a common pool of spares?
I don't think it was the 'original' BR livery; my understanding is that there was a period of various experimental liveries to start with, such as an odd-looking purple/blue Gresley A4 pacific and a Castle Class 4-6-0 in 'apple green'. I'll admit though that, 'Flying Scotsman' in BR condition, as the NRM have decided to present it, with the later BR crest sure does look like it is the same colour as the old Great Western steam loco green. I don't think the current First Group GWR livery has much in common with either though, other than being a dark green. Just compare 57604 (classic GWR green) to it's classmates in the First Group version and you'll see what I mean.
Why are GWR off-leasing anything as new as an Electrostar? They clearly need all the stock they can get having lost the Castle HSTs.
I've always thought of them as naturally dull units. Not really ugly; just plain boring, particularly when they carried Arriva's drab turquoise and cream livery. Talking more-generally, darker colours do generally look smarter than lighter shades although certain lighter colours (eg. white) can also look really sharp if kept clean enough (eg. South West Trains' express livery). Getting back to the photos of the class 175 in GWR livery: why does there seem to be a wide band of light grey/blue near the doors/roofline? Hard to tell if it's just a reflection of something, but if not it looks a bit untidy because it doesn't run the whole length of the coach - if it went all the way along (similar to the yellow band of old that was once use to highlight first class (not that 175s ever had 1st class accommodation) it would probably look fine but breaking it up like that??
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CR165022
Established Member
It's the updated signage like what the 166s have. To signify Priority seating and Bicycle/Luggage spaces etc.
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Roylang
Member
Two things:
Firstly the 387s were moved before the 175 issues became apparent.
Secondly, the 387s are electric, and therefore not an HST replacement.
It is diesel units that GWR are short of.
Roy
What use are surplus electrostars to GWR? They can’t be used on any train that leaves the electrified network (ie virtually everything GWR run).
Roylang
Member
Because the colours only reference part of the coach, not its entirety. It would not be helpful if it extended to areas to which it did not apply. This is a case of funtion over asthetics.
Roy
RPI
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Dec 2010
- Messages
- 3,350
You'd certainly need a long extension lead
I suspect that all the diagrams that remain entirely under the wires already are 387s and what’s left wouldn’t actually free up enough in the right places for long enough to be useful.
Not sure that bumping InterCity passengers onto a suburban train is going to help revenue growth.
TastyMaltesers
Member
I imagine that the IET diagrams with London - Cardiff also have a mix of services in unelectrified areas (to Oxford, Cheltenham, Bristol, Swansea etc.). Not to mention that any diversionary route between Swindon and Cardiff is unelectrified. A 387 won't get far with that!
Envoy
Established Member
- Joined
- 29 Aug 2014
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- 3,137
Why are they wasting money painting them GWR green as this company will cease to exist in December?
TastyMaltesers
Member
Not quite correct - it's getting taken into DFT ownership in December but GBR won't actually be incorporated until 2027
PAD - CDF are normally cancelled when South Wales services are on diversion via Bath or Gloucester.
I'm not saying that 387s are an ideal fit for an Intercity route, but they are already diagrammed from time to time on PAD - CDF. I'd prefer an 8-car 387 any day over a rammed 5-car IET that is supposed to be 9 or 10.
Isn't only one a day to retain route and traction knowledge? The 387s have been used for cardiff stadium event capacity on Cardiff - Newport/Bristol extra services.
Mordac
Established Member
Also the future of regional sub-brands like GWR has still not been decided.
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 18,810
All rather a moot point given that the three units concerned have been leased to GTR for some time.
I dont think it was through choice.
RUK
Member
Southern, South Western, and Anglia (ex-Greater Anglia and c2c) have all already gotten the GBR livery - why would anywhere else that’ll under GBR be any different?
Thanks; I thought it might be something like that - not all that different to the yellow and red stripes that used to identify first class / catering areas - although those did normally cover the full length of the coach with a coloured band (even if it changed from being yellow at one end to red at the other).
Sorry all; my question about the 387s was not really the right question to have asked; there's a whole load of details that I don't know surrounding the various electrification delays, Crossrail, Vivarail's collapse, technical differences (if any) between 387s and 379s, the launch of Bristol-Oxford services etc. In hindsight; probably too many gaps in my knowledge within that realm for one question to fix! However, the underlying point behind all of that is surely the GWR 387s were never intended to run many services beyond Oxford/Didcot (other than Cardiff matchday crowd-busters), so how did they end up being considered surplus? Yes, Didcot-Oxford isn't yet wired, but once that work is finished then surely they will be needing them?
Ah, it's only three 387s that were deemed 'surplus' to GWR then? So more a result of the Thames Valley branches now being expected to get 230s instead of the previously-planned wires?
Anyway, back to 175s; is it still only the one unit that has been confirmed (with public photographs) to be in GWR livery as opposed to TfW white?
Chris125
Established Member
Surely that's just a future aspiration? It's not underway.
Yellow stripes still identify first class (at least on GWR)
They didn’t if the thing that the band referred to didn’t apply to the whole coach. Think Microbuffets, for example, or composite coaches.
Snow1964
Established Member
Originally the stripes were Yellow first class, light blue second class, red for restaurant or buffet
Very few vehicles had the second class stripes, because second class was rare by time the stripes were introduced. And obviously it stopped when third class was reclassified as second.
The stripes have been revived for luggage / cycle spaces, and helps especially as GWR labels its coaches in fixed orders and regularly runs sets in any order, eg this one yesterday evening, a 165 formation lettered E D A B C
But using what was built as an inner suburban set on a 3.5+ hour journey is more a reflection on GWR relying on any thing diesel powered that moves, because the 175s are so unreliable
TastyMaltesers
Member
Putting 158s and 165/6s on Cardiff - Portsmouth trains has nothing to do with the 175s, aside from if the 175s found some reliability then 158s could be cascaded away from Devon to strengthen said Cardiff - Portsmouth trains.
REVUpminster
Established Member
Seems to be three 3 cars about today. 2C00 failed with brakes today. 175006-175011 seem to be on a training run. Maybe a unit will take up the missing diagram.