co-tr-paul
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Class 175s to GWR
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BillStampy
Established Member
This coming Thursday night the units will have another test to Barnstaple, then on Friday night the class will reach the Exmouth branch for the first time.
Thursday Night:
Friday Night:
Thursday Night:
Friday Night:
REVUpminster
Established Member
The Friday night includes a trip to Paignton leaving Paignton before the last train. I am surprised the opportunity to go down to Goodrington sidings wasn't taken. The planned trip weeks ago was cancelled. Maybe it has to be in daylight. I might pop down to see it.
Having thought about Goodrington; Sands Road crossing is worked manually either by GWR staff or Dartmouth Steam Railway.
It's probably why the last Cross Country 2010 to Bristol shunts from platform 1 to 2 via the crossover because there is nobody there.
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RPI
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It's often the train guard that works the crossing, though sometimes the station staff do it on some daytime workings.
REVUpminster
Established Member
Today optimum passenger services but there are seven 3 car turbos. 5 on Paignton-Exmouth, 2 on Barnstaple (one on the 0722).
175007 did Paignton training. 175003 working Newquay. 175002, 175011, 175114 covering Exeter-Plymouth and one uncovered diagram.
175007 did Paignton training. 175003 working Newquay. 175002, 175011, 175114 covering Exeter-Plymouth and one uncovered diagram.
RUK
Member
It seems rather ironic that the very first train to get GBR livery, 387 172 at Southern, had it replacing GWR livery, if trains are still going to be put into GWR livery after that.
175003 taken out of service on the the Newquay branch due to engine issues. 175114 also pulled with similar problems on the main line.
Does GWR have a different policy regarding pulling units from service with engine problems as opposed to ATW and TfW ?
2 car running on one engine is a risk but pulling a 3 car if only one engine out is a bit precautionary I feel unless 2 engines are out.
ATW / TfW had the full fleet out so plenty of other 175 units around to rescue if required, with the limited number of units GWR currently have running a rescue could be a big problem. Running one 175 and one 150 diagram on the Newquay branch means a failed unit is a big issue as the other one can't rescue it.
GWR will be being cautious until they get more experience of the units and the units reliability improves, on ATW / TfW a 3 car on two engines wasn't an issue really but they knew the units far better and trusted them far more than GWR will do at this stage, so no surprise they pull them from service.
Roylang
Member
REVUpminster
Established Member
When does confidence come? They have 16 units, 002 and 114 for 18 months. They only need 19 units for the envisaged service requirements; one of the reasons they have been able to cannibalise them to cover 5 diagrams. Only four today. I do wonder why TFW got rid of them, and before them First North Western so First Group who trade in the southwest as GWR until December. must have known about these trains.
First NW got rid of them because the routes they worked went to whatever the Welsh operator was, didn’t they? TfW were going for the stock equivalent of tot route modernisation (à la Greater Anglia).
First North Western didn’t “get rid of them because they must have known something”
but because as The Exile points out they were transferred over to what because the All Wales Franchise. Essentially FNW was broken up into 3 ways - North Wales Coast to All Wales (Arriva Trains Wales), Manchester and North West locals to Northern Rail and Cumbria to Manchester to First Transpennine Express - TPE subleased a number of 175s to continue working Manchester to Barrow / Windermere services until the arrival of the 185s.Throughout their lives, they have been maintained solely at Chester by Alstom and laterally CAF in their final years in Wales.
DannyMich2018
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Looks like 175001 later took over from 175003 on the Newquay branch but then failed itself.
BillStampy
Established Member
I seem to notice a pattern whereas Laira find a new issue, iron it out completely, only for a new issue to suddenly start happening for them to then fix. It used to be doors and now it's engines failing!
Although, the heat probably doesn't help the units very much!
Although, the heat probably doesn't help the units very much!
Bit like humans, really. Infectious diseases are no longer the killers that they once were in the Western World, so we live long enough to die of cancer or with Alzheimer's instead. If you can't get the doors to open / close at the first station, there probably hasn't been time for the engines to overheat or do whatever they're doing!
REVUpminster
Established Member
175s as yesterday working four out of five diagrams. 175007 did the Paignton run again and 175114-175011 having a run together to Newton Abbot. I wonder if they will be used for Boardmasters at Newquay before chancing Barnstaple.
Seven out of 16 trains is an improvement.
Seven out of 16 trains is an improvement.
RPI
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That's a bit of a daft question, confidence will come when the units start to achieve more miles between failures, as has been pointed out many times by may posters, it takes time for crews to become familiar, engineering staff to become familiar and for general faults from sitting idle for two years to go away.
I know you keep pointing out that a couple of the units have been used on training runs etc for a while, yes they have, but empty runs with minimal use of the doors is nothing like running in service with the doors being cycled at every station.
REVUpminster
Established Member
Exactly. 16 trains and only 4/5 diagrams covered. It doesn't inspire confidence.
TastyMaltesers
Member
I don't think 175s will be replacing the 150 on the Newquay branch for Boardmasters. If anything I think the opposite will be wanted! Consider the 150 door layout is better for dealing with masses of people, and the GWR folks might be more willing to trust that a 150 can get through the diagram without breaking down. But that would rely on there being more 150s handy, and that might be a struggle...
RPI
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The only remote possibility is if they manage to cover one OKE or Barny diagram - though officially that's not happening until the end of August.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
You've literally answered your own question.
There are only 7 units required daily. (4x 2 cars, 3x 3 cars)
BillStampy
Established Member
In terms of how it's been lately, today hasn't been terrible. No proper "failures" in service. Only unit that was swapped out today was 175111 but I think it's more to resolve a staffing issue for 2E28 which would've terminated at Plymouth as a 175 but now won't as it's an IET. Every other diagram has worked with relative success. Cue the last 2 units in service today both failing now before they get back to Plymouth 
So you're currently getting 7 units out of 12 which isn't as bad as you make it seem, it's not all bad but it could be better. As with all things on the railway, it's a learning process. I was having a conversation with someone earlier, when 150s were first introduced they apparently were failing left right and centre, you don't see them failing as much anymore because of the experience that all the staff have learnt on them. Give the units time and GWR will get more confident with how the units work and they'll improve. Plus, leaving them out in the open for 1-2 years hasn't done them any favours in that matter but it does generate good experience.
I'd give them a while longer before putting the units down as "bad"; you can't expect anything on the railway to work the moment you use them for the first time, that's just unrealistic, particularly as these trains were forcibly rushed back into usage with the pressure on GWR by the DFT to withdraw the HST fleet by the end of 2025 and couldn't be given the sufficient amount of TLC they needed.
12 trains, currently. 4 aren't service ready yet. Those being: 175004 at Exeter, 175113 and 116 at Laira and 175010 at Penzance.
So you're currently getting 7 units out of 12 which isn't as bad as you make it seem, it's not all bad but it could be better. As with all things on the railway, it's a learning process. I was having a conversation with someone earlier, when 150s were first introduced they apparently were failing left right and centre, you don't see them failing as much anymore because of the experience that all the staff have learnt on them. Give the units time and GWR will get more confident with how the units work and they'll improve. Plus, leaving them out in the open for 1-2 years hasn't done them any favours in that matter but it does generate good experience.
I'd give them a while longer before putting the units down as "bad"; you can't expect anything on the railway to work the moment you use them for the first time, that's just unrealistic, particularly as these trains were forcibly rushed back into usage with the pressure on GWR by the DFT to withdraw the HST fleet by the end of 2025 and couldn't be given the sufficient amount of TLC they needed.
Apologies for the late reply, I`ve been impacted by the forum issues regarding Outlook
Engine shutdowns or engine issues are not always engine related, there could be other numerous factors and yes heat related problems do affect 175s quite often.
DelW
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The frustrating and annoying thing, though, is that there was no need to rush them back into use. DfT knew that the short set HSTs would be going off-lease, and that the 175s were the only available replacement once it had been decided to abandon the 769/9s. Yet they still chose to park them in unsuitable open storage until the need was urgent.
There was plenty of time between the 175s leaving TfW and the departure of the Castles, to get the units overhauled and GWR staff trained on them. But instead DfT and /or GWR did nothing until far too late, leading to the dismal state of services on GWR's secondary routes all this year.
REVUpminster
Established Member
I.ve updated this list from youtube and face book.
175001 Laira (Wolverton arrival: April 3, 2025, Wolverton Departure: November 5, 2025)
175002 Laira (Straight from Ely, no Wolverton) 27 November 2024
175003 Laira (Wolverton arrival: March 3, 2025, Wolverton Departure: September 18, 2025)
175004 Exeter TMD (Wolverton Arrival: January 30, 2026) (Wolverton Departure: June 23rd, 2026)
175005 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: July 1st, 2026) by road
175006 Laira (Wolverton arrival: April 23, 2025, Wolverton Departure: December 10, 2025)
175007 Laira (Straight from Ely, no Wolverton) 28 February 2025
175009 Laira (Straight from Ely, no Wolverton) 27 January 2025
175010 Penzance T.R.S.M.D. (Straight from Ely, no Wolverton) 13 January 2026 post 2085
175011 Laira (Wolverton arrival: April 23, 2025, Wolverton Departure: December 10, 2025)
175101 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: July 10, 2025, Wolverton Departure: January 23 2026)
175102 Wolverton (Wolverton arrival: October 30, 2025)
175103 Wolverton (Wolverton arrival: March 27, 2026)
175104 Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings
175105 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: March 27, 2026)
175106 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: July 24, 2025)
175107 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: March 19, 2025)
175108 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: March 19, 2025)
175109 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: April 16, 2026)
175110 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: January 30, 2026)
175111 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: October 9, 2025, Wolverton Departure: March 20, 2026)
175112 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: July 24, 2025, Wolverton departure: February 20, 2026)
175113 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: July 10, 2025, Wolverton departure: May 15, 2026)
175114 Laira (Straight from Ely, no Wolverton) 5 December 2024
175115 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: October 9, 2025, Wolverton departure: April 13, 2026)
175116 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: October 30, 2025, Wolverton departure: May 28, 2026)
I've copy pasted and added in bold. Created by BillStampy
175001 Laira (Wolverton arrival: April 3, 2025, Wolverton Departure: November 5, 2025)
175002 Laira (Straight from Ely, no Wolverton) 27 November 2024
175003 Laira (Wolverton arrival: March 3, 2025, Wolverton Departure: September 18, 2025)
175004 Exeter TMD (Wolverton Arrival: January 30, 2026) (Wolverton Departure: June 23rd, 2026)
175005 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: July 1st, 2026) by road
175006 Laira (Wolverton arrival: April 23, 2025, Wolverton Departure: December 10, 2025)
175007 Laira (Straight from Ely, no Wolverton) 28 February 2025
175009 Laira (Straight from Ely, no Wolverton) 27 January 2025
175010 Penzance T.R.S.M.D. (Straight from Ely, no Wolverton) 13 January 2026 post 2085
175011 Laira (Wolverton arrival: April 23, 2025, Wolverton Departure: December 10, 2025)
175101 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: July 10, 2025, Wolverton Departure: January 23 2026)
175102 Wolverton (Wolverton arrival: October 30, 2025)
175103 Wolverton (Wolverton arrival: March 27, 2026)
175104 Ely Mlf Papworth Sidings
175105 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: March 27, 2026)
175106 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: July 24, 2025)
175107 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: March 19, 2025)
175108 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: March 19, 2025)
175109 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: April 16, 2026)
175110 Wolverton (Wolverton Arrival: January 30, 2026)
175111 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: October 9, 2025, Wolverton Departure: March 20, 2026)
175112 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: July 24, 2025, Wolverton departure: February 20, 2026)
175113 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: July 10, 2025, Wolverton departure: May 15, 2026)
175114 Laira (Straight from Ely, no Wolverton) 5 December 2024
175115 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: October 9, 2025, Wolverton departure: April 13, 2026)
175116 Laira (Wolverton Arrival: October 30, 2025, Wolverton departure: May 28, 2026)
I've copy pasted and added in bold. Created by BillStampy
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Which is a ROSCO risk-based decision. If the most likely prospect was ‘cars to Newport’ then Ely made sense.
What we will probably never know is whether DfT were offered an opportunity to pay for anything better. What we can be sure of is that the dim bean counters would have declined it!
REVUpminster
Established Member
Four 3 cars out today so that's very good. 114 never been to Wolverton, been at Laira 18 months. 007 again did Paignton, been at Laira 16 months.