Class 175s to GWR

[REVUpminster]

They have said they would make do with what they had at Laira which is 6 175s. Failing that I reckon the trains will be cancelled on the HSTs diagrams. Still two weeks to get something from Wolverton.
Today only one 158 (yesterday there were none) on the Devon Metro. All the rest were turbos and 150s.

 

[Anonymous10]

They have said they would make do with what they had at Laira which is 6 175s. Failing that I reckon the trains will be cancelled on the HSTs diagrams. Still two weeks to get something from Wolverton.
Today only one 158 (yesterday there were none) on the Devon Metro. All the rest were turbos and 150s.

Can have all the 175s, but if no drivers sign them its irrelevant.

 

[tfw756rider]

They have said they would make do with what they had at Laira which is 6 175s.

Can have all the 175s, but if no drivers sign them its irrelevant.

So, do any drivers sign 175s yet? And if any do, is there an estimated date for the start of entry-to-service of the 175s?

 

[irish_rail]

So, do any drivers sign 175s yet? And if any do, is there an estimated date for the start of entry-to-service of the 175s?

As I've already posted, it's around about 15 approximately. A handful at Par and the balance at Plymouth, several being Laira only drivers. Most are instructors and assessors, not really "everyday" drivers. No one at Penzance or Exeter yet trained.

 

[FGW_DID]

So, do any drivers sign 175s yet? And if any do, is there an estimated date for the start of entry-to-service of the 175s?

See post #1703.

 

[Anonymous10]

I'd say there is more than a shred of truth in this rumour. The stats speak for themselves. Approx 10 drivers trained up at Plymouth thus far, that includes 4 (?) "depot only " drivers, plus "lead drivers" and instructors (ie drivers who won't actually be rostered to drive the trains in service as they will be released for training). Par have as far as I know 3 drivers who have been passed competent on 175s (again primarily assessors etc).
I can't see how they are going to be in service in three weeks time in all honesty, the training is taking longer than expected. Just because some on here don't want to believe it, the reality is things are looking far from rosey come December 14th.

So, do any drivers sign 175s yet? And if any do, is there an estimated date for the start of entry-to-service of the 175s?

Whilst the above post may not be completely accurate certainly doesnt seem they have many.

 

[tfw756rider]

I'd say there is more than a shred of truth in this rumour. The stats speak for themselves. Approx 10 drivers trained up at Plymouth thus far, that includes 4 (?) "depot only " drivers, plus "lead drivers" and instructors (ie drivers who won't actually be rostered to drive the trains in service as they will be released for training). Par have as far as I know 3 drivers who have been passed competent on 175s (again primarily assessors etc).
I can't see how they are going to be in service in three weeks time in all honesty, the training is taking longer than expected. Just because some on here don't want to believe it, the reality is things are looking far from rosey come December 14th.

See post #1703.

Whilst the above post may not be completely accurate certainly doesnt seem they have many.

Ah, thanks.

 

[REVUpminster]

Did the 175 simulators ever get to Laira or Exeter?

 

[XFeed]

The wiring may not have been removed, but some steps were taken to stop those buttons working. Only the close button worked

But longer were permitted in theory.

Thanks for the reply but I do not recall a maintenance instruction issued to disable the cab desk bodyside doors arming/door release buttons and yes I believe in theory sets longer than 9 cars were possible but I am unaware of anything longer than 9 cars in service or ECS due to reliability issues.

 

[Russel]

Looking through the poster's other content it seems they're a bit prone to the hyperbole and things seem to be based on hear say rather than anything particularly official or substantial.

I thought the same, looking through their X page, one to take with a pinch of salt I think.

 

[170UTD]

I'd say there is more than a shred of truth in this rumour. The stats speak for themselves. Approx 10 drivers trained up at Plymouth thus far, that includes 4 (?) "depot only " drivers, plus "lead drivers" and instructors (ie drivers who won't actually be rostered to drive the trains in service as they will be released for training). Par have as far as I know 3 drivers who have been passed competent on 175s (again primarily assessors etc).
I can't see how they are going to be in service in three weeks time in all honesty, the training is taking longer than expected. Just because some on here don't want to believe it, the reality is things are looking far from rosey come December 14th.

Just to add to the potential problem, can all of the units at Laira (six I think) be used for passenger service yet, or only some of them, do they have to go to Wolverton first?

 

[tfw756rider]

It's around about 15 approximately. A handful at Par and the balance at Plymouth, several being Laira only drivers. Most are instructors and assessors, not really "everyday" drivers. No one at Penzance or Exeter yet trained.

I see, thanks.

 

[RPI]

Traincrew establishments have been kept too low at many TOCs for many years, with no cushion to absorb the impact of additional pressures (increases in retirements, release for traction and route). Clearly, a conscious decision has been made to let these fleet introductions become very drawn out by not putting the proper resources in place in a timely manner, presumably to save money.

Exeter is actually over establishment at the moment, I believe a couple of other depots are too, I'm not sure if this has one eye on the seven day railway.

 

[DelW]

Yes, it won't be popular, but we are where we are. DfT said no to an extended stay of execution for the Castle Sets. More Turbos also appear to be covering diagrams around Exeter as well of late.

Which rather implies that no-one learned anything from the debacles when TfW lost the 175s before the 197s were ready, or when SWR lost the 707s before the 701s were ready, to name but two ... Stuff the passengers yet again, they can put up with cancellations, short forms and being left behind on platforms.

 

[ThatBloke]

I'll be blunt - this is absolute nonsense - subject to any unforeseen circumstances.

The 175s when they came off lease from TFW back to Angel, sat and continue to sit, in various locations. They received minimal maintenance whilst off lease. As they are transferred to GWR, there is significant catch-up maintenance and repairs to do, to bring the units into a condition that they are usable/acceptable to GWR.
It is for the asset owner Angel to ensure their trains are provided to their customer GWR in the contractually agreed condition.
(Much as you would expect if you bought or leased any second hand vehicle, let alone a 20+year old train, even if you did lease them on very favourable terms)

 

[XFeed]

The 175s when they came off lease from TFW back to Angel, sat and continue to sit, in various locations. They received minimal maintenance whilst off lease. As they are transferred to GWR, there is significant catch-up maintenance and repairs to do, to bring the units into a condition that they are usable/acceptable to GWR.
It is for the asset owner Angel to ensure their trains are provided to their customer GWR in the contractually agreed condition.
(Much as you would expect if you bought or leased any second hand vehicle, let alone a 20+year old train, even if you did lease them on very favourable terms)

Agreed handback repairs were carried out to each unit at Chester as they were withdrawn but there were still a number of OJR`s on each unit that remained.

 

[tfw756rider]

Agreed handback repairs were carried out to each unit at Chester as they were withdrawn but there were still a number of OJR`s on each unit that remained.

What are OJRs?

 

[DelW]

Agreed handback repairs were carried out to each unit at Chester as they were withdrawn but there were still a number of OJR`s on each unit that remained.

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[XFeed]

What are OJRs?

Apologies for not being clearer.
OJR''s were Overrun Job Reports detailing what minor repairs/minor defects were currently outstanding to each unit which could include waiting for specific parts to be sourced or planning for more detailed work/investigations into a particular issue. Also units on monitor were placed on this report, monitor being when a defect such as an ESD Engine Shutdown, RVI Revert to Idle, HVAC issues Heating Ventilation and Cooling, Battery chargers where repairs were carried out but required a short time in service to confirm that the fault was now rectified. In essence anything outstanding on a unit.
Hope this helps clarify for all.

 

[Snow1964]

As I've already posted, it's around about 15 approximately. A handful at Par and the balance at Plymouth, several being Laira only drivers. Most are instructors and assessors, not really "everyday" drivers. No one at Penzance or Exeter yet trained.

And presumably every time they go and collect one from Wolverton, one of the drivers is effectively tied up for two days, a day to get there, another day to bring unit back. Probably also needs a pilot driver Wolverton to Willesden/Acton too (assuming Devon and Cornwall staff don't sign that section)

I am guessing the timetabled pause at Twyford area is a toilet break, and the wait at Taunton is another break.

 

[JN114]

And presumably every time they go and collect one from Wolverton, one of the drivers is effectively tied up for two days, a day to get there, another day to bring unit back. Probably also needs a pilot driver Wolverton to Willesden/Acton too (assuming Devon and Cornwall staff don't sign that section)

I am guessing the timetabled pause at Twyford area is a toilet break, and the wait at Taunton is another break.

The moves to/from Wolverton aren’t driven by GWR

 

[Snow1964]

The moves to/from Wolverton aren’t driven by GWR

My error, apologies, never occurred to me other drivers would be trained just to occasionally move them from the works, whilst they struggle to train those for everyday service.

 

[Russel]

Apologies if it's already been asked, but have GWR given any indication as to what diagrams the first 175s will be used on?

 

[JN114]

Apologies if it's already been asked, but have GWR given any indication as to what diagrams the first 175s will be used on?

There hasn’t been any public announcement

But informed sources have posted in another thread; I don’t have the link to hand

 

[craigybagel]

My error, apologies, never occurred to me other drivers would be trained just to occasionally move them from the works, whilst they struggle to train those for everyday service.

Rail Operations Group (ROG) have a handful of drivers who sign 175s who have been handling these moves since the units left TfW. That company specialises in that kind of rare movement.

 

[D365]

Rail Operations Group (ROG) have a handful of drivers who sign 175s who have been handling these moves since the units left TfW. That company specialises in that kind of rare movement.

And I don’t imagine that ROG drivers would be qualified to operate units in passenger service.

 

[Rhydgaled]

The moves to/from Wolverton aren’t driven by GWR

My error, apologies, never occurred to me other drivers would be trained just to occasionally move them from the works, whilst they struggle to train those for everyday service.

I assume there wouldn't be (m)any GWR drivers who know the route to and from an off-region works (as I assume Wolverton is) anyway, so I'm guessing they would at least need a FOC (Freight Operating Company) driver (or, apparently in this case, Rail Operations Group) to accompany them to warn if they need to slow for an upcoming speed restriction, signal or something like that.

Back to GWR passenger services, and I think somebody posted above that about 15 GWR drivers now 'sign' class 175s - is the progress on training guards similarly limited?

 

[cactustwirly]

Apologies if it's already been asked, but have GWR given any indication as to what diagrams the first 175s will be used on?

The Castle diagrams would be a good indication, and then the current 802 workings between Penzance and Plymouth/Exeter eventually

 

[DelW]

Apologies if it's already been asked, but have GWR given any indication as to what diagrams the first 175s will be used on?

I think this is the post to which JN114 referred (post 1734):

Initial GWR Class 175 diagrams from December 2025.

More or less replacing the Castle Class HST’s with a few minor differences. I won’t list spare or training units. Monday to Friday from 15 December. 3C05 0645 Laira - Liskeard 2P05 0808 Liskeard - Plymouth 2C11 1014 Plymouth - Penzance 2P16 1315 Penzance - Plymouth 5P16 1519 Plymouth - Laira...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Ashley Hill]

assume there wouldn't be (m)any GWR drivers who know the route to and from an off-region works

IIRC in Wales & West days some Gloucester drivers signed Doncaster for ferrying units to/from works.