Class 175 future speculation

[TurboMan]

But also aren’t gangwayed so still potentially a problem.

Plus the system is based on operating a switch in the trailing cab of the lead unit (not at the guard's door panel), so massively prone to error.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But also aren’t gangwayed so still potentially a problem.

Northern now uses non-gangwayed units with SDO on the Windermere branch, if you're in the wrong bit you can't get out. It'd be interesting to know how much of an issue that actually causes - as the small stations are primarily for locals probably not a massive one.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Northern now uses non-gangwayed units with SDO on the Windermere branch, if you're in the wrong bit you can't get out. It'd be interesting to know how much of an issue that actually causes - as the small stations are primarily for locals probably not a massive one.

GWR also uses it themselves on 80x trains with non Gangwayed units, where trains formed of 10 cars stop at stations such as Hayle, Ivybridge and Dawlish Warren with only the front unit opening.

 

[The exile]

GWR also uses it themselves on 80x trains with non Gangwayed units, where trains formed of 10 cars stop at stations such as Hayle, Ivybridge and Dawlish Warren with only the front unit opening.

As long as it’s announced in plenty of time (including on-station at all previous calls) it shouldn’t be too much of an issue.

 

[Rich McLean]

Currently the Castles are 4 car and the IETs are 5 car (with a carriage and a half taken up by First Class anyway) so I would image 3 or 4 car (2x2) 175s would be sufficient?

For the most part. On a nice summers day, not unsual for a 5 car on a through working to be full and standing. Most will be suffient as a 3 car, but with a few 4 or 5 car services, splitting and joining to best meet demand.

 

[TheWalrus]

For the most part. On a nice summers day, not unsual for a 5 car on a through working to be full and standing. Most will be suffient as a 3 car, but with a few 4 or 5 car services, splitting and joining to best meet demand.

Will be interesting to see how they work it. I’m guessing GWR must have some ideas on how they will do it.

 

[LowLevel]

Northern now uses non-gangwayed units with SDO on the Windermere branch, if you're in the wrong bit you can't get out. It'd be interesting to know how much of an issue that actually causes - as the small stations are primarily for locals probably not a massive one.

Aren't the intermediate stations 4 coaches long for SDO, meaning you can get out from either unit provided you move to the front of the second one.

 

[py_megapixel]

Aren't the intermediate stations 4 coaches long for SDO, meaning you can get out from either unit provided you move to the front of the second one.

Don't think so - when TPE used to run 185s, which are also 3×23m, up that branch, I recall it being local door release only at Burneside and Staveley. (185s have SDO now, but they may not have done at the time or perhaps it doesn't work on a single unit for some reason)

 

[LowLevel]

Don't think so - when TPE used to run 185s, which are also 3×23m, up that branch, I recall it being local door release only at Burneside and Staveley. (185s have SDO now, but they may not have done at the time or perhaps it doesn't work on a single unit for some reason)

The sectional appendix has the usable length of each platform as between 92 and 95 metres which should just about permit a 4 car operation with class 195 door spacings.

Northern conductors work from the back set only on multiple units so to run 6 cars to Windermere they'd either have to lock out the rear set, or be able to open at least 4 coaches I'd have thought?

I'm sure 3 car 175s used to go up there without an issue in FNW/TPE days?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Can the 175s operate in a 3x3 6 car formation?

Yes they can, I've been on one, I was in the front carriage but a video I took shows people in the back carriages. (Manchester - South Wales service)

 

[RPI]

GWR also uses it themselves on 80x trains with non Gangwayed units, where trains formed of 10 cars stop at stations such as Hayle, Ivybridge and Dawlish Warren with only the front unit opening.

Also Hungerford where, if first class is at the front of the rear set on the down, passengers can't alight from the rear set! (I've seen this happen so many times!)

There seems to be a suggestion doing the rounds that the Cardiff-Penzance service will be split at Exeter, if that's the case then a three car west of Exeter would probably suffice on most services, though I'm not sure of the legitimacy of this suggestion.

 

[The exile]

Also Hungerford where, if first class is at the front of the rear set on the down, passengers can't alight from the rear set! (I've seen this happen so many times!)

There seems to be a suggestion doing the rounds that the Cardiff-Penzance service will be split at Exeter, if that's the case then a three car west of Exeter would probably suffice on most services, though I'm not sure of the legitimacy of this suggestion.

A Cardiff - Exeter stopper (including Wellington and Cullompton as, when and if) alongside a Bristol - Penzance running fastish to Exeter would probably be OK from a passenger perspective. Just splitting at Exeter is not and is a recipe for stupid loadings on XC for shortish journeys across the divide.

 

[Xavi]

There seems to be a suggestion doing the rounds that the Cardiff-Penzance service will be split at Exeter

It’s likely rumour stems from the planned extension of Cardiff to Taunton services to Exeter to provide the hourly service for Wellington. I would be very surprised if a full split of the timetable happened as the enhanced Cardiff-Penzance service has generated considerable new business for GWR.

 

[CptCharlee]

So many people west of Exeter use the Cardiff service to go to Bristol. Cutting it at Exeter would be bad. As mentioned beforehand the Crosscountry service would suffer.

Yeah Cardiff-Penzance has been a massive success for GWR. Connectivity has increased so much between many communities. There's a massive market from Devon and Cornwall to Bristol.

 

[Topological]

Surely, in the hours where the train is Cardiff to Penzance, it would just pick up the extra local stops. The Cardiff to Penzance is already slow between Bristol and Taunton, so it is unlikely to put many off with two extra stops.

IF the training process for 175s requires a split at Exeter then it will provide an indication to GWR about the effect of a longer-term split.

 

[irish_rail]

There's a massive market from Devon and Cornwall to Bristol.

There is, but what is needed is quick trains between the two. The current Penzance to Cardiff stoppers are pretty unattractive really for travellers from anywhere west of Exeter travelling to Bristol (or indeed Cardiff which is similarly popular). We need a service that is fast from Taunton to Bristol, perhaps allowing for say a stop at Weston-super-Mare, but not these all stations trains that take literally twice as long as the XC alternative.

 

[TheGuy77]

I was thinking about putting these trains on the Liverpool-Norwich line to replace EMR's 158s (they don't plan to run 170s on that route). It seems like a regional-express train so would be perfect for that route.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

I was thinking about putting these trains on the Liverpool-Norwich line to replace EMR's 158s (they don't plan to run 170s on that route). It seems like a regional-express train so would be perfect for that route.

They already use 170s on that route. Have seen plenty of EMR 170s at Lime St.

 

[bspahh]

I was thinking about putting these trains on the Liverpool-Norwich line to replace EMR's 158s (they don't plan to run 170s on that route). It seems like a regional-express train so would be perfect for that route.

This will not work. 175s are not allowed to use sprinter differentials (too heavy?). They would have to run at lower speeds on the Breckland line

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-175-future-speculation.218095/page-47#post-6466658 discusses this

 

[Bletchleyite]

This will not work. 175s are not allowed to use sprinter differentials (too heavy?). They would have to run at lower speeds on the Breckland line

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-175-future-speculation.218095/page-47#post-6466658 discusses this

170s are better anyway, the very high loadings on the line mean doors at thirds speed the passenger turnover significantly.

 

[py_megapixel]

Yes, the 170s are already in service on some Liverpool-Norwich runs and they work very well. With the interior done up a bit they will be perfect for the line and we need more of them, not less.

 

[REVUpminster]

Splitting train is not a good idea. Where would you do it at Exeter; platform 6?

I remember often getting a 9 car 159 from Waterloo, dropping three cars at Salisbury. The rest splitting at Exeter with 3 cars going to Plymouth and 3 cars going to Paignton. There were a lot less trains in those days between Exeter and Paignton/Plymouth.

 

[The exile]

Splitting train is not a good idea. Where would you do it at Exeter; platform 6?

I remember often getting a 9 car 159 from Waterloo, dropping three cars at Salisbury. The rest splitting at Exeter with 3 cars going to Plymouth and 3 cars going to Paignton. There were a lot less trains in those days between Exeter and Paignton/Plymouth.

The reference was to splitting the service, not trains.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Another week goes by and still nothing confirmed from GWR. Will believe it when I see it.

 

[The exile]

Another week goes by and still nothing confirmed from GWR. Will believe it when I see it.

To make any public announcement now, even if all the i’s were dotted and the t’s crossed, would only be raising expectations prematurely.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Another week goes by and still nothing confirmed from GWR. Will believe it when I see it.

Whilst I’ve not seen nothing official from the company, there has been recent mention of training and usage of them to drivers by Aslef in an email in the last week.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Another week goes by and still nothing confirmed from GWR. Will believe it when I see it.

Why do they need to make an official announcement?

 

[Rich McLean]

As for the split of through workings, its more likely to take place at Plymouth for capacity reasons, with 80x forwards, with some 175s working to and from exeter on selected workings. Eventually once enough train crew are trained, 175s will work all the way to Cardiff.

 

[Philip]

Do the 175s have the same engines, exhausts & transmission now that they had when new, and do they sound the same? I've seen some old videos in the FNW days and they seemed to sound a little different & louder then, but I guess this might be the recording quality.

 

[Nym]

They have been de-rated since build, but I'm not sure on the exact details.