Class 175 future speculation

[Clarence Yard]

Nothing will happen until the DfT signs off on the deal.

 

[RPI]

I believe that some may got to Laira soon but only officially as further storage for the ROSCO as it stands.

 

[The exile]

I believe that some may got to Laira soon but only officially as further storage for the ROSCO as it stands.

Though the choice of Laira is a pretty strong indication of the direction the wind is blowing (or at the very least the direction the parties involved would like it to blow in). Especially if it’s the ones that have been fettled up to be in “handback” condition.

 

[baza585]

Meanwhile the (Welsh) taxpayer is paying lease costs on the trains that TfW has failed to maintain adequately, and nobody seems bothered.

What a mess.....

 

[Cambrian359]

Meanwhile the (Welsh) taxpayer is paying lease costs on the trains that TfW has failed to maintain adequately, and nobody seems bothered.

What a mess.....

Given the amount of money the WAG has wasted on pet projects over the years I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow even if a full accurate article was widely published about the 175s. Also,I’m fairly sure they have stated that they are off lease in any questions about them being parked up on social media. So to most people that would translate to there not paying for them anymore.

 

[baza585]

Given the amount of money the WAG has wasted on pet projects over the years I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow even if a full accurate article was widely published about the 175s. Also,I’m fairly sure they have stated that they are off lease in any questions about them being parked up on social media. So to most people that would translate to there not paying for them anymore.

I suspect you are 100% correct.

I'm really surprised the Tories haven't made more of the absolute mess Labour have made of running Wales. I guess they are too incompetent to even do that!

 

[JamesT]

I suspect you are 100% correct.

I'm really surprised the Tories haven't made more of the absolute mess Labour have made of running Wales. I guess they are too incompetent to even do that!

I've seen quite a few news articles where the Tories are attacking the Labour record in Wales, especially highlighting that Starmer has suggested Wales would be a blueprint for his policies. Though they usually concentrate on the NHS and Wales' "anti-motorist" policies, rather than their competence in public transport.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Meanwhile the (Welsh) taxpayer is paying lease costs on the trains that TfW has failed to maintain adequately, and nobody seems bothered.

What a mess.....

I’ve seen a lot of speculation about this but not actually confirmed that TFW are still paying. Do you have a source ?

I'm really surprised the Tories haven't made more of the absolute mess Labour have made of running Wales.

I've seen quite a few news articles where the Tories are attacking the Labour record in Wales, especially highlighting that Starmer has suggested Wales would be a blueprint for his policies. Though they usually concentrate on the NHS and Wales' "anti-motorist" policies, rather than their competence in public transport.

It’s interesting because things seem like they’re a bit better in Wales than they are in England, at least that’s certainly how me and some friends who live in England see it, even if Wales is far from perfect. so perhaps it’s a bit difficult for them to attack it too much ?

But that debate is way, way off topic.

 

[Express380]

Have just read this on Social Media

GWR 175s
GWR have signed a contract for 20 175s to be based at Laira to replace the IET's on the Penzance to Cardiff diagrams.

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See posts, photos and more on Facebook.

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Is this true or is this yet another rumour that has spiralled?

 

[darylyates17]

Have just read this on Social Media

GWR 175s
GWR have signed a contract for 20 175s to be based at Laira to replace the IET's on the Penzance to Cardiff diagrams.

Is this true or is this yet another rumour that has spiralled?

Its interesting they are interested as they hated the unreliability of the related 180s, a 175 would look lush in GWR colors though I do have a huge soft spot for 175s still a bit disappointed they've left TfW.

 

[gc4946]

If true, could they be formed as 5-car units, i.e. 10 x 3-car, 10 x 2-car, semi-permanently coupled?
This means GWR can select the best carriages out of the 27 units and reform them.

 

[Energy]

Have just read this on Social Media

GWR 175s
GWR have signed a contract for 20 175s to be based at Laira to replace the IET's on the Penzance to Cardiff diagrams.

Is this true or is this yet another rumour that has spiralled?

Seems unlikely. Angel would not lease out just 20, they'd struggle to lease out the remaining 7 and it would be cheaper for them to lease them out on a low rate than pay for storage.

Plan for GWR was not just IET/HST replacement on Cardiff - Penzance but cascading enough 158s to get Cardiff - Portsmouth mostly 158s. IIRC the plan was 175s on Okehampton and Barnstaple runs.

I can't remember the envisioned depot for the 175s but I'd expect Laira to be busy as its planned for more 802 work to be carried out there.

 

[Snow1964]

Seems unlikely. Angel would not lease out just 20, they'd struggle to lease out the remaining 7 and it would be cheaper for them to lease them out on a low rate than pay for storage.

At 24 years old, and being non standard, they might sell off the remainder for spare parts, rather than store them.

There is a financial juggling act, where what is best for LeaseCo might potentially be to get a settlement lumpsum from previous user, for worst condition units, in compensation for not returning them as per lease standards.

Being blunt, Angel can only lease out all 27, it TfW returns all 27 in usable condition.

 

[Bikeman78]

At 24 years old, and being non standard, they might sell off the remainder for spare parts, rather than store them.

There is a financial juggling act, where what is best for LeaseCo might potentially be to get a settlement lumpsum from previous user, for worst condition units, in compensation for not returning them as per lease standards.

Being blunt, Angel can only lease out all 27, it TfW returns all 27 in usable condition.

What happened to the three fire damaged ones? I think 175101 was reformed using the good car from one of the others so that effectively cuts it down to two.

 

[Western 52]

What happened to the three fire damaged ones? I think 175101 was reformed using the good car from one of the others so that effectively cuts it down to two.

Didn't they go to Ilford for repair?

 

[anthony263]

Seems unlikely. Angel would not lease out just 20, they'd struggle to lease out the remaining 7 and it would be cheaper for them to lease them out on a low rate than pay for storage.

Plan for GWR was not just IET/HST replacement on Cardiff - Penzance but cascading enough 158s to get Cardiff - Portsmouth mostly 158s. IIRC the plan was 175s on Okehampton and Barnstaple runs.

I can't remember the envisioned depot for the 175s but I'd expect Laira to be busy as its planned for more 802 work to be carried out there.

DFT probably letting them order the absolute minimum amount of units. Another option is angel have checked the condition of the units perhaps the rest are for spares etc or maybe some reformed perhaps

 

[Anonymous10]

DFT probably letting them order the absolute minimum amount of units. Another option is angel have checked the condition of the units perhaps the rest are for spares etc or maybe some reformed perhaps

Or that those 20 will be the first and much later 7 more will arrive which need ALOT of work.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Have just read this on Social Media

GWR 175s
GWR have signed a contract for 20 175s to be based at Laira to replace the IET's on the Penzance to Cardiff diagrams.

Is this true or is this yet another rumour that has spiralled?

Where on social media did you see this out of curiosity?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jun 2024 ==

Or that those 20 will be the first and much later 7 more will arrive which need ALOT of work.

That could be a possibility.
I really do hope GWR get these units. They’re good units and would be great for some added capacity at GWR.

Now, if only Chiltern will take the MK5A fleet

 

[Energy]

DFT probably letting them order the absolute minimum amount of units. Another option is angel have checked the condition of the units perhaps the rest are for spares etc or maybe some reformed perhaps

DfT is unlikely to have signed off on anything while Parliament is dissolved. The 345 order was time-sensitive, this can wait.
The DfT would want the best for its operators but must operate within the confines of what the Treasury is willing to spend. Its expected that more stock than the 175s alone would be required for the government's metrowest improvements.

7 units for spares is a lot, and I thought TfW would have to return them in good condition. Reforming doesn't reduce the number of units as the number of driving vehicles is the same.

Or that those 20 will be the first and much later 7 more will arrive which need ALOT of work.

Angel would not fund a lot of work. The units are short-term at GWR for likely 5-7 years, with Project Churchward replacing all but IETs and 387s.

 

[Caaardiff]

What happened to the three fire damaged ones? I think 175101 was reformed using the good car from one of the others so that effectively cuts it down to two.

175111 was at Longsight for quite a while, but recent comments state it may have been moved, or just no longer visible at Longsight.
175008 is at Ilford, with another recent photo showing it still had fire damage marking on the outside of the coaches.
Whether these will make it back into service is questionable. If they don't, that leaves 15 3 car units and 10 2 car units.

 

[irish_rail]

This is happening. 20 units to be formed as 3 + 2 sets. Whether it has actually received official sign off yet I don't know, but 20 x 175s are headed for Laira.

 

[Snow1964]

7 units for spares is a lot, and I thought TfW would have to return them in good condition. Reforming doesn't reduce the number of units as the number of driving vehicles is the same.

Angel would not fund a lot of work.

Details of leases are not in public domain, but all commercial leases for transport (including ships, trucks etc) have clauses about compensation and settlements for non return. This is because some will suffer severe damage, destruction, are lost etc.

The amounts obviously are on sliding scale depending on age and number of years already leased. But probably not a lot of residual value in units ordered in 1997 and delivered 23-24 years ago. It is possible that financially settling is cheaper than cost of restoring some units to lease return condition.

It seems logical that small number of the fleet, might effectively be paid off for scrap or parts, rather than restoring the worst condition units.

I might not be upto speed, but last I heard, some class 175 hadn't even been moved to Landore, which is where I understood they are getting fixed to lease return condition. Suggests they might not be included in list to be fixed.

 

[Wolfie]

Details of leases are not in public domain, but all commercial leases for transport (including ships, trucks etc) have clauses about compensation and settlements for non return. This is because some suffer will severe damage, destruction, are lost etc.

The amounts obviously are on sliding scale depending on age and number of years already leased. But probably not a lot of residual value in units ordered in 1997 and delivered 23-24 years ago. It is possible that financially settling is cheaper than cost of restoring some units to lease return condition.

It seems logical that small number of the fleet, might effectively be paid off for scrap or parts, rather than restoring the worst condition units.

I might not be upto speed, but last I heard, some class 175 hadn't even been moved to Landore, which is where I understood they are getting fixed to lease return condition. Suggests they might not be included in list to be fixed.

Agreed, particularly given the potential costs involved in trying to procure replacements for obsolescent parts in relatively small numbers.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

175111 was at Longsight for quite a while, but recent comments state it may have been moved, or just no longer visible at Longsight.
175008 is at Ilford, with another recent photo showing it still had fire damage marking on the outside of the coaches.
Whether these will make it back into service is questionable. If they don't, that leaves 15 3 car units and 10 2 car units.

111 is still being put back together at Longsight. Last photos I saw it had its couplers back!

 

[Express380]

Where on social media did you see this out of curiosity?

On a FB group called all train and bus uk where most of the 'Gen' is correct but wanted to check this one as it seemed far fetched

 

[anthony263]

On a FB group called all train and bus uk where most of the 'Gen' is correct but wanted to check this one as it seemed far fetched

Any link as I can't find it

 

[43096]

Or that those 20 will be the first and much later 7 more will arrive which need ALOT of work.

The work to return the 175 fleet to acceptable condition is being done by TfW - it is a condition of the lease handback to Angel.

 

[Bikeman78]

175111 was at Longsight for quite a while, but recent comments state it may have been moved, or just no longer visible at Longsight.
175008 is at Ilford, with another recent photo showing it still had fire damage marking on the outside of the coaches.
Whether these will make it back into service is questionable. If they don't, that leaves 15 3 car units and 10 2 car units.

175111 was not damaged by fire. I think it was already stood down by February last year.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

This is happening. 20 units to be formed as 3 + 2 sets. Whether it has actually received official sign off yet I don't know, but 20 x 175s are headed for Laira.

Ten of each subclass I guess.

 

[gc4946]

This is happening. 20 units to be formed as 3 + 2 sets. Whether it has actually received official sign off yet I don't know, but 20 x 175s are headed for Laira.

If 20 units arrive, how many IETs would be released for Paddington services, and would they also see off the remaining HSTs?