Class 175 future speculation

[vicbury]

Cardiff to Nottingham wouldn't be a bad shout nonetheless and Barton depot is on the route and has the advantage of being an Alstom depot. The XC 170s could easily find work elsewhere; EMR, Northern & Chiltern being the most likely as all 3 TOCs already operate Turbostars with suitable depot facilities and have purposeful reasons for taking them on.

The 175s would be good units for Cardiff-Birmingham-Nottingham; it's inter-urban express and if they all ran doubled up then it utilise most of the fleet, as this route currently uses 11 diagrams I think. Can all the stations served within this route accomodate 6-car trains?

Locally to me, Lydney and Caldicot cannot, I'd be surprised if Chepstow can, and not sure about Severn Tunnel Junction.

 

[The Planner]

Cardiff to Nottingham wouldn't be a bad shout nonetheless and Barton depot is on the route and has the advantage of being an Alstom depot. The XC 170s could easily find work elsewhere; EMR, Northern & Chiltern being the most likely as all 3 TOCs already operate Turbostars with suitable depot facilities and have purposeful reasons for taking them on.

The 175s would be good units for Cardiff-Birmingham-Nottingham; it's inter-urban express and if they all ran doubled up then it utilise most of the fleet, as this route currently uses 11 diagrams I think. Can all the stations served within this route accomodate 6-car trains?

Wilnecote, Willington, Long Eaton, Caldicot, Chepstow and Lydney cannot.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Wilnecote, Willington, Long Eaton, Caldicot, Chepstow and Lydney cannot.

Can they take 3 ? If so then conductors can just operate the doors of the front set on 175’s. Of course a pain If you want one of those stations and you’re in the back set.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Would the DFT really want XC to take on another microfleet after only removing one (the HSTs) last year?

What on earth makes you call a fleet of 27 units a microfleet? Crazy use of the term.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2024 ==

Can they take 3 ? If so then conductors can just operate the doors of the front set on 175’s. Of course a pain If you want one of those stations and you’re in the back set.

Yes, but people do just need to wake up and read displays/listen to announcements then. In NSW Australia, the Intercity services are typically pairs of non-gangway four carriage stock, and there are many 4 car short platforms. If you want one, you make sure you get in the rear (it’s rear there, would be front here) set. If you’re not, you change at the station before, latest. It’s perfectly doable with common sense.

 

[YorkRailFan]

What on earth makes you call a fleet of 27 units a microfleet? Crazy use of the term.

Would all 27 go to XC in that case? Or just 3 car 175s?

 

[Lurcheroo]

What on earth makes you call a fleet of 27 units a microfleet? Crazy use of the term.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2024 ==


Yes, but people do just need to wake up and read displays/listen to announcements then. In NSW Australia, the Intercity services are typically pairs of non-gangway four carriage stock, and there are many 4 car short platforms. If you want one, you make sure you get in the rear (it’s rear there, would be front here) set. If you’re not, you change at the station before, latest. It’s perfectly doable with common sense.

Oh yes absolutely. Maybe it’s a UK issue but my god people don’t pay attention here

 

[Grumpy Git]

As a semi-regular passenger on the Crewe-Stoke-Derby line, I'd love a 175 in place of the internally horrendous 170's.

 

[Caaardiff]

XC currently have 29 170s - 7x 2 car and 29x 3 car, so taking on a fleet of 27 175's with 11x 2 car and 16x 3 car would not only mean less units but also a big drop in carriages. So they'd have to take on the 175's and keep a smaller fleet of 170's, cascading some to another TOC to see any benefit.
It is a shame TFW couldn't find somewhere to maintain them and keep them on the network. There's a lot of grand plan in Wales for various metros, namely North Wales, Swansea and South Wales (Cardiff-Newport areas), which TFW won't be able to manage any further growth with their current fleet.
The 175's could happily worked the Heart of Wales (4 diagrams) and Swansea - Pembroke Dock (4 diagrams) services, could have continued working Maesteg - Cheltenham (5 diagrams) and Ebbw Vale lines (5 diagrams) until the 231's move over and still had spare capacity to pick up other work such as Swanline & Fishguard Harbour.
Although the 153's are workhorses, they are reaching end of life and there's no plan to replace them currently. Although the long term plans will see fewer 153's in the fleet, there is currently 26 aged 153's being kept going vs 27 175's.
If any of the grand metro plans go ahead, then TFW will need to order more units.

 

[Anonymous10]

XC currently have 29 170s - 7x 2 car and 29x 3 car, so taking on a fleet of 27 175's with 11x 2 car and 16x 3 car would not only mean less units but also a big drop in carriages. So they'd have to take on the 175's and keep a smaller fleet of 170's, cascading some to another TOC to see any benefit.
It is a shame TFW couldn't find somewhere to maintain them and keep them on the network. There's a lot of grand plan in Wales for various metros, namely North Wales, Swansea and South Wales (Cardiff-Newport areas), which TFW won't be able to manage any further growth with their current fleet.
The 175's could happily worked the Heart of Wales (4 diagrams) and Swansea - Pembroke Dock (4 diagrams) services, could have continued working Maesteg - Cheltenham (5 diagrams) and Ebbw Vale lines (5 diagrams) until the 231's move over and still had spare capacity to pick up other work such as Swanline & Fishguard Harbour.
Although the 153's are workhorses, they are reaching end of life and there's no plan to replace them currently. Although the long term plans will see fewer 153's in the fleet, there is currently 26 aged 153's being kept going vs 27 175's.
If any of the grand metro plans go ahead, then TFW will need to order more units.

One almost wonders if they could have been kept and a deal made with Landore but alas.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Would all 27 go to XC in that case? Or just 3 car 175s?

16 units isn’t a microfleet either…

 

[43096]

16 units isn’t a microfleet either…

Depends how big the total fleet is. If it is 16 units out of 200, then it is a microfleet!

 

[778]

16 units isn’t a microfleet either…

A would probably say a microfleet is 10 units or less.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

175s to GWR is now the latest rumour. Apparently to replace the last of the Castle Sets. Training is in the offing. First set to go down next week?

Where is this coming from please?

 

[Geeves]

Where is this coming from please?

A poster on the South Wales Railways group says his relative is learning the traction and is based at Bristol. Ones moving next week. Obviously to be took with a pinch of salt but it would be great to see them avoiding SIMS!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A poster on the South Wales Railways group says his relative is learning the traction at Bristol. Ones moving next week. Obviously to be took with a pinch of salt but it would be great to see them avoiding SIMS!

Well, goodness... if they're already being learned that would certainly make it seem like more than just a rumour perhaps? I hold out some hope after all.

 

[Jamesrob637]

They need to be booked at least 4-car in Devon and Cornwall, more in the summer months.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They need to be booked at least 4-car in Devon and Cornwall, more in the summer months.

I doubt they'll go down there if Bristol are being trained on them, they'll probably displace the six 158s off of the Portsmouths to go down and do it.

 

[JonathanH]

I doubt they'll go down there if Bristol are being trained on them, they'll probably displace the six 158s off of the Portsmouths to go down and do it.

The previous informed postings have suggested that 175s on Portsmouth services is more difficult than 175s on services further west.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The previous informed postings have suggested that 175s on Portsmouth services is more difficult than 175s on services further west.

Sure, and those were commenting on speculation before it was known that Bristol were training staff up, rather than Exeter and Laira.

 

[Western 52]

Have there been any training runs with 175s in the Bristol area? I've not noticed any as yet. I didn't think any were in that area.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Sure, and those were commenting on speculation before it was known that Bristol were training staff up, rather than Exeter and Laira.

There are no Bristol GWR crew being trained on class 175s.

There’s lot of rumour but no training crew is not in the offing presently.

 

[Dan G]

I'd be delighted to see GWR using 175s (they're good trains) but until an official announcement is made it's just continued speculation.

 

[GWVillager]

Well, goodness... if they're already being learned that would certainly make it seem like more than just a rumour perhaps? I hold out some hope after all.

Well, it still is a rumour. The relative hasn’t commented themselves, and they could just have misinterpreted Class 165, for example. I have no idea, but we’re best waiting until something official, it really could be anything.

 

[The exile]

I doubt they'll go down there if Bristol are being trained on them, they'll probably displace the six 158s off of the Portsmouths to go down and do it.

The things that could sensibly be displaced are the IET sets working to Worcester etc on Bristol local services - over-provision if I ever saw it! Don’t know how complicated / interworked their or their crew diagrams are though.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Some interesting rumours here. Have heard a few people saying that Chiltern will have them but I just don’t see it overly likely.

I do think GWR having the 175’s and Chiltern the MK5’s would be the best case overall.

 

[anthony263]

Some interesting rumours here. Have heard a few people saying that Chiltern will have them but I just don’t see it overly likely.

I do think GWR having the 175’s and Chiltern the MK5’s would be the best case overall.

I think that's whats going to happen. With the trains getting busier and 1u5s being cheaper than the castle hsts then I can see this government milking it especially with an election approaching

 

[Kite159]

175s would be lovely for Cardiff - Portsmouth services, ran as 5 coach formations. Much better interior than the suburban 3+2 seated Turbos.

 

[Lurcheroo]

I think that's whats going to happen. With the trains getting busier and 1u5s being cheaper than the castle hsts then I can see this government milking it especially with an election approaching

Yes definitely cheaper than the HST’s.
With 16 3 cars and 11 2 cars And, as far as I can tell, 6 castle sets left at GWR you could made 6x5 car sets and leave GWR with 10 3cars and 5 2cars to replace some of the workings being covered by IET’s which would then free up those IETS to be doing the work they should actually be doing.

It’s just relys on nothing other than the HST’s being taken away.

 

[Anonymous10]

Yes definitely cheaper than the HST’s.
With 16 3 cars and 11 2 cars And, as far as I can tell, 6 castle sets left at GWR you could made 6x5 car sets and leave GWR with 10 3cars and 5 2cars to replace some of the workings being covered by IET’s which would then free up those IETS to be doing the work they should actually be doing.

It’s just relys on nothing other than the HST’s being taken away.

I believe all castles are leaving the fleet though?

 

[Russel]

The GWR route through Devon runs along the sea wall with lots of salt water and the 175's have had some serious corrosion issues in the past...

Interesting combination...