Class 175 future speculation

[Anonymous10]

I’ve put in quite a number of random codes for the APIS and never found anything off the TFW network so I doubt they’re still in there (but could be wrong). Wouldn’t have thought that it would be a huge job to have them reprogrammed seems as GWR will already have all of the files made up for their current fleet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2023 ==


Ahh scrap last part of mine about reprogramming then haha !

From a recent video I saw if pis changes to the northern fleet it appears to be as simple as swapping sd cards.

 

[irish_rail]

GWR would be a great fit (though I know they have been ruled out due to the fire history). Penzance to Cardiff route would make the most sense due to the average journey times on that route, with plenty of journeys in the 2 to 3 hour range (ie similar to what they do now with TFW). Cardiff to Portsmouth would be a bit of a waste in my view, with most trips an hour or less.
It's a shame GWR has ruled them out as I find them to be exceptionally nice internally, especially the refurbished ones.

 

[Energy]

GWR would be a great fit (though I know they have been ruled out due to the fire history). Penzance to Cardiff route would make the most sense due to the average journey times on that route, with plenty of journeys in the 2 to 3 hour range (ie similar to what they do now with TFW). Cardiff to Portsmouth would be a bit of a waste in my view, with most trips an hour or less.
It's a shame GWR has ruled them out as I find them to be exceptionally nice internally, especially the refurbished ones.

Penzance to Cardiff would be a nice route interior wise but it would still have units being far from the home depot. I can see why GWR doesn't want unreliable units potentially failing a long distance away.

 

[irish_rail]

Penzance to Cardiff would be a nice route interior wise but it would still have units being far from the home depot. I can see why GWR doesn't want unreliable units potentially failing a long distance away.

Other than the high profile fires, are they really as unreliable as we are led to believe though?. You would presumably base them at Laira and SPM, so I wouldn't say they'd ever get too far from home.

 

[43102EMR]

EWR is planned to be 196s when services start running in 2025.

WMR’s managing director confirmed no 196s of theirs are being used for EWR.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Makes sense; GWR already have a fleet of 158s so it saves driver training and I'm pretty sure the TfW and GWR 158s were all part of a single fleet once upon a time, back in the days of Wessex Trains and Alphaline, so their destinations (if they're still programmed to have a mix of Wales & Borders and Great Western destinations) would probably already be compatible out of the box.

I’ve put in quite a number of random codes for the APIS and never found anything off the TFW network so I doubt they’re still in there (but could be wrong). Wouldn’t have thought that it would be a huge job to have them reprogrammed seems as GWR will already have all of the files made up for their current fleet.

I'm pretty sure the current PIS on the TfW 158s was fitted during the big ATW refurbishment in 2011. The displays changed anyway - before that it was old-style liquid crystal (car-radio style) on the external displays (I'm not sure they even had visual destination/next-stop information internally before the refurb).

Other than the high profile fires, are they really as unreliable as we are led to believe though?. You would presumably base them at Laira and SPM, so I wouldn't say they'd ever get too far from home.

The 175s ran Manchester-Milford for ATW for many years and I don't remember that having a reputation for failures - overcrowding yes but not breakdowns. During this time they were often out-stabled at Carmarthen, 173mi 26ch away by the shortest route (which happens to be via Llandrindod) from their Chester base. Cardiff-Portsmouth is only 135mi 41ch (again, shortest route). It was only in the last few years under TfW that reliability appeared to fall off a cliff.

 

[craigybagel]

Other than the high profile fires, are they really as unreliable as we are led to believe though?. You would presumably base them at Laira and SPM, so I wouldn't say they'd ever get too far from home.

When Chester was run by Alstom they were the most reliable units in the fleet.

 

[simonmpoulton]

When Chester was run by Alstom they were the most reliable units in the fleet.

Exactly - the issues recently only started after CAF took over, i'm sure that whilst the staff would've remained the same the management probably had different ideas! I'm sure I read that on average they were doing double the average sprinter fleet mileage between failures?

I'm sure with proper maintenance under a new TOC they can continue to be as reliable as they have been!

 

[Philip]

I read that a change in the maintenance regime at Alstom Chester in the mid-late 2000s was what finally brought the reliability up to standard, and later they had some mechanical improvements done at Longsight as part of a refurbishment, which improved things even more.

It seems they perform well with specialist maintenance, so whoever takes them on, if anyone, needs to factor this in and have a suitable depot nearby.

 

[irish_rail]

Exactly - the issues recently only started after CAF took over, i'm sure that whilst the staff would've remained the same the management probably had different ideas! I'm sure I read that on average they were doing double the average sprinter fleet mileage between failures?

I'm sure with proper maintenance under a new TOC they can continue to be as reliable as they have been!

Agreed. Hopefully GWR will see that too. I guess the issue is what depot do you allocate them as a main base. Laira is to be Hitachified and SPM is busy with Turbos. Because it does sound like they need a specialist dedicated depot, much like Chester used to be.

 

[Anonymous10]

Agreed. Hopefully GWR will see that too. I guess the issue is what depot do you allocate them as a main base. Laira is to be Hitachified and SPM is busy with Turbos. Because it does sound like they need a specialist dedicated depot, much like Chester used to be.

Could use Exeter granted that's busy with the class 150s and an secondary base for turbos but Chester would also service other fleets.

 

[The Planner]

WMR’s managing director confirmed no 196s of theirs are being used for EWR.

Got a source for that? As Id best tell people to re-do the timetable based on 168s....

 

[CyrusWuff]

Got a source for that? As Id best tell people to re-do the timetable based on 168s....

Best tell Chiltern, the DfT and EWR too!

 

[12LDA28C]

WMR’s managing director confirmed no 196s of theirs are being used for EWR.

Chiltern are sub-leasing them from WMR so I suppose being pedantic, they won't be WMR units being used.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2023 ==

Best tell Chiltern, the DfT and EWR too!

Indeed!

 

[RobShipway]

I cannot see the class 175 units working elsewhere in the UK. Whilst GWR might be an option, they are more likely to be using the 16 175/1 units than the 175/0 units, unless the 10 175/0 units work alongside ten of the 175/1 units, with at least 4 of the class 175/1 units working as two paired units to form six carriage trains.

Other than Penzance - Carrdiff and Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central I cannot see what existing GWR routes that the class 175 units could be used on.

The only other option that I see would be if the Brighton - Great Malvern services where restarted as I believe with the class 175 units, GWR would have enough stock to return to running this service, if the paths still exist.

Chiltern are sub-leasing them from WMR so I suppose being pedantic, they won't be WMR units being used.

So I am guessing that they will only be WMR units in Vinyl colouring with Chiltern logo temporarily added?

 

[Bob Price]

Knowing there are a batch of 158's due of lease soon, GWR will probably go with something they can currently maintain. Can't see the 175's going anywhere as it will be down to the DfT. And their track record, and current theme, isn't to expand, it's to cut.

 

[anthony263]

Tfw 158s unlikely to be available until 2025. Mind you tfw have said if they can get the 756s to work on the CVL before the 398s take over they'll be able to withdraw some class 150s

 

[ajay1071]

It will be a sad end for the remaining 175/1's if there is no further use found for them. I spent many journeys over many years on these units and found them very comfortable and reliable, excepting the fire failures early this year which got sort in this end. I'm sure if a suitable operator and refurbishment program was undertaken these units could see a useful extended life.

 

[Dan G]

For clarity, I forget which 175-related thread it's stated on, but apparently a TOC has signed a lease for the 175s. It just hasn't been announced which one.

 

[Caaardiff]

Tfw 158s unlikely to be available until 2025. Mind you tfw have said if they can get the 756s to work on the CVL before the 398s take over they'll be able to withdraw some class 150s

They won't have a choice to keep the 150's. Porterbrook won't be completing major exams on them when they are due so they'll be retired.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Tfw 158s unlikely to be available until 2025. Mind you tfw have said if they can get the 756s to work on the CVL before the 398s take over they'll be able to withdraw some class 150s

And 175s wouldn’t realistically be available any sooner, bearing in mind we are nearing the start of 2024.

A year to undertake a whole scale depot and driver training which is probably realistic if using them on long distance routes such as Cardiff to Penzance which involve a lot of traincrew depots would put them as being available for traffic about the same time as the TfW 158s…

 

[InkyScrolls]

For clarity, I forget which 175-related thread it's stated on, but apparently a TOC has signed a lease for the 175s. It just hasn't been announced which one.

Is there a publicly available link to a relevant source? If it's internal comms and no source is available I understand.

 

[Dan G]

Is there a publicly available link to a relevant source? If it's internal comms and no source is available I understand.

See

Unless something has changed they're not going to Sims. It was stated a while back that a TOC has signed for the whole fleet (hence why the leases could not be extended). We're yet to find out which, though - I imagine we will soon!

(Speculation on where goes here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...e-given-a-new-home.254140/page-2#post-6408212)

So you'd have to ask them

 

[12LDA28C]

So I am guessing that they will only be WMR units in Vinyl colouring with Chiltern logo temporarily added?

Who knows? They might well be on lease for a few years you it wouldn't be that temporary. They will have heavier maintenance done at Tyseley so I'm not sure if six EWR-specific units will be used or just six 196s rotated through Tyseley as required.

 

[Bletchleyite]

See


So you'd have to ask them

That's not the original post, I was referring to an earlier one, but I totally forget which thread.

 

[Essex Express]

It is very clear the class 175 and the class 180 need TLC. it has been shown that unit kept at one depot on one route perform well look at SWR class 158 and class 159 have the best performance figure for all class 158 and 159 operators. So if you can not find a operator you find a route and split it off from the present operator. So if you split Norwich to Nottingham from EMR and Stansted Airport/Cambridge to Birmingham from Cross Country also there is a depot at Cambridge that can maintain them so a small operation with a good number of units back in East Anglia at night. As the there are not enough 3 car 175 available can the middle cars off the stored class 180 be uses to make up more 3 car units. This plan would also mean that some of the Cross County class 170 would become spare which could transfer to Chiltern Railways and again they already operate this type of unit meaning a standard fleet for Chiltern Railways

 

[Trainbike46]

It is very clear the class 175 and the class 180 need TLC. it has been shown that unit kept at one depot on one route perform well look at SWR class 158 and class 159 have the best performance figure for all class 158 and 159 operators. So if you can not find a operator you find a route and split it off from the present operator. So if you split Norwich to Nottingham from EMR and Stansted Airport/Cambridge to Birmingham from Cross Country also there is a depot at Cambridge that can maintain them so a small operation with a good number of units back in East Anglia at night. As the there are not enough 3 car 175 available can the middle cars off the stored class 180 be uses to make up more 3 car units. This plan would also mean that some of the Cross County class 170 would become spare which could transfer to Chiltern Railways and again they already operate this type of unit meaning a standard fleet for Chiltern Railways

Are 175s allowed to use sprinter differentials? And would using them still be possible with 180 carriages used in them? if not they would represent a significant speed reduction in East Anglia and wouldn't be able to operate anything close to the current timetable, which would make them unsuitable for the route

If the rumours here that someone signed a lease for them are true, we'll find out soon enough where they're going.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Are 175s allowed to use sprinter differentials?

I don't think so.

 

[Siemens Staines]

This was published by the DfT in May 2022 so it is likely to be as unreliable, or out of date, as any of the speculation posted to this forum as evidenced by the refererence to HyDrive. Nevertheless Chiltern and Class 175 were mentioned together.

Page 20, para 39.4

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1081083/chiltern-railway-company-ltd-business-plan-commitments.pdf

Credit to Tony Miles on wnxx for finding this

 

[Anonymous10]

This was published by the DfT in May 2022 so it is likely to be as unreliable, or out of date, as any of the speculation posted to this forum as evidenced by the refererence to HyDrive. Nevertheless Chiltern and Class 175 were mentioned together.

Page 20, para 39.4

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1081083/chiltern-railway-company-ltd-business-plan-commitments.pdf

Credit to Tony Miles on wnxx for finding this

This has been previously discussed at length