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Class 171 problems

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RichardKing

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25 Jul 2015
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565
What is going on with these units at the moment? They seem to be completely unreliable with many services on the Marshlink and Uckfield lines cancelled or, in the latter line's case, short formed due to faults.

To give an example, many Marshlink services were curtailed at Hastings this afternoon to receive some TLC at St Leonards Depot, leaving customers at Brighton having to use Seaford/Lewes shuttles as alternatives.

I know that the ex-ScotRail units were being temperamental during their introduction period; is this still the case? Are the 2 car units, which would normally be diagrammed to work on the Marshlink, being used to strengthen the Uckfields?
 
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Expression357

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16 Jul 2009
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What is going on with these units at the moment? They seem to be completely unreliable with many services on the Marshlink and Uckfield lines cancelled or, in the latter line's case, short formed due to faults.

To give an example, many Marshlink services were curtailed at Hastings this afternoon to receive some TLC at St Leonards Depot, leaving customers at Brighton having to use Seaford/Lewes shuttles as alternatives.

I know that the ex-ScotRail units were being temperamental during their introduction period; is this still the case? Are the 2 car units, which would normally be diagrammed to work on the Marshlink, being used to strengthen the Uckfields?

I also gather there is an issue with new wheel set availability as a time for need has coincided with factory shutdown at the supplier.
 

HLE

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27 Dec 2013
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I doubt there are many suppliers for that sort of thing these days.
 

Chrisgr31

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2 Aug 2011
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1,703
Are the 2 car units, which would normally be diagrammed to work on the Marshlink, being used to strengthen the Uckfields?

There is a shortage of units on the Uckfield Line as well. We arent as badly affected by cancellations as most of out trains are made up of more than one unit, so they just run short.

It is impossible to find out what the current position is on the the train formation. Last year when all the platform works were completed my understanding was the 15:0x, 16:0x,17:0x all ex LBG would all be 10 car in the morning the 6:30, 7:05, 7:30 ex UCK would all be 10 car. I am not sure this has ever happened.

The 7:30 has not been 10 cars for months and is currently programmed as 6. The others seem to be random as to what they are programmed. The 16:08 this evening was advertised as 8 not 6, and the 18:06 as 8 not 10.

Finding out what the issues are seems impossible.
 

Bishopstone

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24 Jun 2010
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Seaford
Beyond May 2018 the service is curtailed at Hastings, requiring just three 171s, I believe, including the Rye shuttle unit?

It will be interesting to see whether they can string together a reliable service when the operation is drastically simplified. What with the GTR dispute, and diesel units which don't last a full day in service without falling apart, I'm surprised there are any passengers left on Marshlink. They must be a hardy bunch.
 

Chrisgr31

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Joined
2 Aug 2011
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1,703
Beyond May 2018 the service is curtailed at Hastings, requiring just three 171s, I believe, including the Rye shuttle unit?

It will be interesting to see whether they can string together a reliable service when the operation is drastically simplified. What with the GTR dispute, and diesel units which don't last a full day in service without falling apart, I'm surprised there are any passengers left on Marshlink. They must be a hardy bunch.

The Uckfield line shows what can be done with a reliable relatively cheap service. Passenger numbers have increased significantly since Southern first took over the service and introduced the Class 171s. Before then there were no more than 2 direct trains to London and changing at Oxted was necessary at all other times. There was no early train and the last train was ridiculously early.

The arrival of an hourly direct service, early trains, late trains, and a broadly reliable service brought passengers flocking. Prior to Southern it was always felt the line was being run down and prepared for closure. Instead of which last year they extended all the platforms to run 10 car trains.

Since then it has gone totally downhill. The industrial dispute hasn't helped, the closures for the works didn't help, but the reliability of the units has been a total disaster. Quite often they don't even have enough trains to operate the train lengths they did before the Class 170s arrived.

It will be very interesting to see what has happened to passenger numbers but it does appear they have reduced significantly. The car park at Crowborough not being full, there being empty seats between East Croydon and London Bridge, empty seats at Edenbridge even when short formed.

The real odd decision was to change the 170s to 171s and make them 2 and 4 units. It would have been much more sensible to have left them as 3 car units and put them on the Marshlink and bring all the 2 car units up to Uckfield. Increasing capacity on both lines. However the DfT had made a decision and therefore we have to live it.

People seem to be wanting bi-mode trains on the Marshlink which seems like a good idea, no need to change, if they ran them to London, but passengers might miss the comfort of the 171s as despite the faults they are comfortable.

I have no idea what is happening with fleet maintenance, last time it was this bad I sent an email to Southern applying for the vacancy of fleet manager which I assumed existed as it was so bad. I said I didn't have a clue about train maintenance but as it appeared their staff didn't either this shouldnt be a problem. Strangely I got no reply!

However I do hope that as autumn approaches they can sort the reliability issues on these units. It would also help if they actually told the passengers what was wrong. Passengers might be more sympathetic!
 

physics34

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Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
4,088
The Uckfield line shows what can be done with a reliable relatively cheap service. Passenger numbers have increased significantly since Southern first took over the service and introduced the Class 171s. Before then there were no more than 2 direct trains to London and changing at Oxted was necessary at all other times. There was no early train and the last train was ridiculously early.

The arrival of an hourly direct service, early trains, late trains, and a broadly reliable service brought passengers flocking. Prior to Southern it was always felt the line was being run down and prepared for closure. Instead of which last year they extended all the platforms to run 10 car trains.

Since then it has gone totally downhill. The industrial dispute hasn't helped, the closures for the works didn't help, but the reliability of the units has been a total disaster. Quite often they don't even have enough trains to operate the train lengths they did before the Class 170s arrived.

It will be very interesting to see what has happened to passenger numbers but it does appear they have reduced significantly. The car park at Crowborough not being full, there being empty seats between East Croydon and London Bridge, empty seats at Edenbridge even when short formed.

The real odd decision was to change the 170s to 171s and make them 2 and 4 units. It would have been much more sensible to have left them as 3 car units and put them on the Marshlink and bring all the 2 car units up to Uckfield. Increasing capacity on both lines. However the DfT had made a decision and therefore we have to live it.

People seem to be wanting bi-mode trains on the Marshlink which seems like a good idea, no need to change, if they ran them to London, but passengers might miss the comfort of the 171s as despite the faults they are comfortable.

I have no idea what is happening with fleet maintenance, last time it was this bad I sent an email to Southern applying for the vacancy of fleet manager which I assumed existed as it was so bad. I said I didn't have a clue about train maintenance but as it appeared their staff didn't either this shouldnt be a problem. Strangely I got no reply!

However I do hope that as autumn approaches they can sort the reliability issues on these units. It would also help if they actually told the passengers what was wrong. Passengers might be more sympathetic!

the whole franchise is now short staffed at all levels. Money is being pumped into making sure Thameslink goes "smoothly", probably at a cost to SOuthern and Great northern. You CANNOT run a successful rail service on a shoestring....but it looks like weve got this until 2021. It can only get worse. Not sure the "management contract" can be stopped early because i believe Go Via have already been paid until 2021...(correct me if im wrong).

Its agonising to believe we have another 4 years of this...but...where are the protests?

Keeping those units as 3s was a no brainer...... as running 7/9 car instead of 8/10 wouldnt be the worst issue in the word, and the benefits of 3 cars on the Marshlink or the Uckfield line (on saturdays/off peak) are obvious.

If bi-mode is successful and there are no restrictions on 319s on the Marshlink then the 769s should be ordered ASAP
 
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RichardKing

Member
Joined
25 Jul 2015
Messages
565
The real odd decision was to change the 170s to 171s and make them 2 and 4 units. It would have been much more sensible to have left them as 3 car units and put them on the Marshlink and bring all the 2 car units up to Uckfield. Increasing capacity on both lines. However the DfT had made a decision and therefore we have to live it.

People seem to be wanting bi-mode trains on the Marshlink which seems like a good idea, no need to change, if they ran them to London, but passengers might miss the comfort of the 171s as despite the faults they are comfortable.

3 car units on the Marshlink, possibly strengthened to 6 in the peak, would've been ideal! Unfortunately, we are in the hands of the DFT...and I won't even go into their incompetence!

As Chrisgr31 pointed out, the new timetable in 2018 will leave the Marshlink 171s only venturing as West as Hastings (apart from ECSs to Selhurst), so overcrowding should ease towards Brighton. I will certainly miss the comfort though - and the bonus of being able to sit in first class!
 
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