Class 171: Pointless Modification?

[MCR247]

It was also planned that when TL North was first electrified and 317/1s were used, that they would work as

Bedford end |210>17> London End etc so that the 317 would power to Bedford and the 210 would detach and run to Corby

 

[Ministry]

Bit of a coincidence, but while waiting for my train this morning an announcement went out that an emergency replacement bus service was being laid on for all stations to Uckfield and East Grinstead because of a broken down train at Hurst Green. I don't know any of the other details, but having to lay on replacement buses at such short notice suggests that being able to shunt the faulty unit out the way wasn't an option.

 

[OxtedL]

I wasn't around this morning, so can't help you on the specifics, but the only place near Hurst Green where you can dump anything is Oxted siding. And there's a tunnel in the way. If it's serious enough to stop all trains on a busy commuter route, there are probably immediate safety (or at least severe techincal) issues to clear first.

It is when these are sorted, and they start having to deal with the backlog of trains, that the ability to couple would become useful, I would think.

 

[pendolino]

I wasn't around this morning, so can't help you on the specifics, but the only place near Hurst Green where you can dump anything is Oxted siding. And there's a tunnel in the way.

And you can't really put a 377 in there (the bay) because it's unelectrified.

 

[OxtedL]

The siding is, however. Haven't seen anything in that for a while, though, not since they completed the work relocating the points at the north end of the station for the platform extensions.

Sometimes when there are engineering works, the planning department at Southern or whoever appear to try and dump East Grinstead shuttles in Platform 3. Entertaining when the CIS and Live Departure boards try and cope with the platform changes...

 

[pendolino]

The siding is, however.

No it isn't (not all of it)

Actually, I think the 3rd rail is there but the hook switch is open. Or something.

edit: it's a weird one. I just checked the route pack and that shows it as electrified but the shunt pack shows it as not. And it's only 2 cars so you couldn't put a 377 in there anyway.

 

[A-driver]

Sorry if I'm repeating anything but I havnt fully read the entire thread.

They fitted the turbos with dellners so that they can rescue electrostars and vice versa. Obviously it's not full proof as 455s and 6s use tightlocks as do 319s so if a 171 broke down on the London bridge down fast with a 319 in front and a 455 behind then you still need a fitter with an emergency coupler.

377s and 171s can drag each other if the failed unit is cut out (happened a lot over the past few years of snow) but they are not electronically compatible so the coupling blocks have to be isolated so that all you get is the delvers locking together and no electrical communication between the 2 units. A fitter will then wind the parking brake off the failed unit to allow a drag back to Selhurst or lovers walk. It isn't currently possible to run cleric and diesel in multiple.

As I say I have only to know it done in the snow when the ice gets the better of the over sensitive 377 LIMs but could be used any time one fails.

As for opted station, the bay is non electrified and the siding can accommodate a 4 car EMU but have never know one go in there-can't see much point as the down platform is reversable. A few weekends ago engineering works meant we terminated the grinnies at opted in the down platform and changed ends back to London with no shunting etc.

 

[A-driver]

By accommodate a 4 car I mean the third rail only extends the length of a 4 car. I believe there are sleepers tied the track blocking access to anything longer than 4 anyway like the west Croydon turn back but not 100% on that-will look on Monday when I am down there 3 times!

 

[pendolino]

As for opted station, the bay is non electrified and the siding can accommodate a 4 car EMU but have never know one go in there-can't see much point as the down platform is reversable. A few weekends ago engineering works meant we terminated the grinnies at opted in the down platform and changed ends back to London with no shunting etc.

As I said above, that's not what the shunt pack says, but to be honest I haven't a clue, never been in there! I'd be checking very, very carefully with the box if I was ever asked to go in there (I'd probably even ask him to pop over and have a look at it with me, just to be quite sure. And then go back over to the box with him for a nice cuppa)

 

[OxtedL]

When this happened, 805 was in the siding for the day (IIRC), so it will fit 4-cars. I think the juice extends far enough to allow an EMU to be OK, but obviously can't say whether it's hooked up.

However, it wasn't clear of the points on the siding itself (the one's leading back to what an ambition person would term platform 0... ), so it's interesting...

Since the works at Oxted, the siding appears to have been shortened (using the pile of sleepers, as mentioned above). It looked like they replaced the points at the time of the works, but I could have been imagining it.

It looks like that if you repaired it etc you could possibly fit 8-cars in the siding? Certainly 6-cars, maybe from the days of slammers?

You will of course know more than me.

 

[A-driver]

When I signed the route I was told the siding was live and usable but can't see why it would be used-you can do mainline shunts at woldingham, oxted, hurst green and lingfield so can't see why they would need you to shunt into the sidings aswell-even in the peak it only sees about 5 trains an hour.

 

[pendolino]

When this happened, 805 was in the siding for the day (IIRC), so it will fit 4-cars. I think the juice extends far enough to allow an EMU to be OK, but obviously can't say whether it's hooked up.

However, it wasn't clear of the points on the siding itself (the one's leading back to what an ambition person would term platform 0... ), so it's interesting...

Since the works at Oxted, the siding appears to have been shortened (using the pile of sleepers, as mentioned above). It looked like they replaced the points at the time of the works, but I could have been imagining it.

It looks like that if you repaired it etc you could possibly fit 8-cars in the siding? Certainly 6-cars, maybe from the days of slammers?

You will of course know more than me.

I imagine that with that 171 on fire, they made an exception to the 2 car rule to get it out of the way - assuming the shunt pack's correct about it being 2 car capacity. If it was foul of the points (the ones up to the headshunt, which I think is what you mean by platform 0), it would be ahead of the ground position light, and might even have meant that the signaller couldn't clear the protecting signal on the mainline, depending on the track circuiting & interlocking. I don't know for certain though.

To be honest, I don't look that closely at the siding when down that way (it's a bit of an irrelevance for the most part as it's so infrequently used, if at all), but I'm curious now so I'll have to have a look next time I work a Grinny. It's quite likely NR reduced the siding length because the sleepers are rotting and they don't want to replace them.
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When I signed the route I was told the siding was live and usable

Quite possibly. I'm not sure it was even discussed when I was briefed on the route! I might ask a CDM (that'll confuse them!), not that it really matters given that, as you say, there's no need to use it.