class 165 engine issues

[acs3141]

I'm a rail passenger and are interested in the railways and stumbled across this forum.

been on a couple of gwr 165's recently that have issues with the engines going back to idle when pulling away from platform.

is this a common problem, the drivers appear to work around it by not applying full power.

andy

 

[XCTurbostar]

Hello Andy, it’s great to have you with us on the forum! It’s great to see that you have an interest in Britain’s Railways.

My daily commute is on a class 170 which was a close descendant of the pre-privatisation 165s and 166s. Based on your description, I’m guessing that the issue your talking about could be the on-board computer realising there is wheel slip and cutting the engine power to retry applying power. This is perfectly normal and as you said, the driver will fix this issue by cutting the power until the vehicle speed has exceeded the point where increased traction can be achieved.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Deleted

 

[t_star2001uk]

I'm a rail passenger and are interested in the railways and stumbled across this forum.

been on a couple of gwr 165's recently that have issues with the engines going back to idle when pulling away from platform.

is this a common problem, the drivers appear to work around it by not applying full power.

andy

On a 165 its not good driving practice to go from notch 0 to 7 when starting away. On Chiltern its notch 3 or 4 when pulling away and notch up as speed increases. If there is any WSP activity when pulling away the engine will revert to idle and then once the WSP rack has resolved the issue the engine will start to give traction again and rev up.

 

[acs3141]

XCTurbostar: that makes sense. I also had an engine die on one and the driver could not restart. I wasn't sure if it may be related in some way

t_star2001uk: I've always thought it was a bit harsh applying full power when pulling off. I know there is not a direct link between the engine and wheels. it goes through some hydraulic transfer system.

thanks for the feedback

 

[DanNCL]

Noticed this same issue on a 156 a few days ago. Is this a common issue with many DMUs?

 

[Cowley]

Noticed this same issue on a 156 a few days ago. Is this a common issue with many DMUs?

It’s definitely getting into that time of year (leaf fall) when this sort of thing occurs more frequently.
Just goes to show that there’s a bit more skill involved than we (the uninitiated) probably realise at times.

 

[Doomotron]

XCTurbostar: that makes sense. I also had an engine die on one and the driver could not restart. I wasn't sure if it may be related in some way

t_star2001uk: I've always thought it was a bit harsh applying full power when pulling off. I know there is not a direct link between the engine and wheels. it goes through some hydraulic transfer system.

thanks for the feedback

By the way, use an @ before a user's name to tag them directly. @acs3141
It will direct them to your post.

 

[acs3141]

It’s definitely getting into that time of year (leaf fall) when this sort of thing occurs more frequently.
Just goes to show that there’s a bit more skill involved than we (the uninitiated) probably realise at times.

I have thought about what is involved in being a driver. I assumed that there would be a lot of in cab information but I'm learning how old some of the trains are. also I have recently purchased train simulator, I know this is not an exact replica of real life but it does give insights of how much knowledge is required and of course this forum has provided some insights .

 

[t_star2001uk]

I have thought about what is involved in being a driver. I assumed that there would be a lot of in cab information but I'm learning how old some of the trains are. also I have recently purchased train simulator, I know this is not an exact replica of real life but it does give insights of how much knowledge is required and of course this forum has provided some insights .

A lot of the actual driving of the train is based around sight, sound and feel. Although some of the simulators are pretty good, you cannot convey the sensory part on to a computer screen. I have played around on our full size simulator at Aylesbury, but it is nowhere near a good analogue for a real train...

 

[CarltonA]

On a 165 its not good driving practice to go from notch 0 to 7 when starting away. On Chiltern its notch 3 or 4 when pulling away and notch up as speed increases. If there is any WSP activity when pulling away the engine will revert to idle and then once the WSP rack has resolved the issue the engine will start to give traction again and rev up.

Is there likely to be much difference between the Chiltern 165/0s and the GWR 165/166s as regards wheelslip, due to the different gear ratios?

I've known the engine to stall in one car when pulling away from Gerrards Cross causing the driver to stop and then restart. The engine conked out again as we were breezing through Northolt Park, though our progress was not hindered significantly. (That may have been a 168 come to think of it).

 

[t_star2001uk]

Is there likely to be much difference between the Chiltern 165/0s and the GWR 165/166s as regards wheelslip, due to the different gear ratios?

I've known the engine to stall in one car when pulling away from Gerrards Cross causing the driver to stop and then restart. The engine conked out again as we were breezing through Northolt Park, though our progress was not hindered significantly. (That may have been a 168 come to think of it).

I dont think there is any difference regarding the WSP system and how it works. We do have automatic sanders which help under braking and we can also sand manually during traction. Under normal circustances engine on 165's do not stall, there is usually another reason for them to shut down (Low oil, high temperature, low coolant level etc) so chance are there was a slight glitch somewhere in the system. 168's however are a completely different beast, as they made greater use of more electronics.

 

[KingDaveRa]

On a 165 its not good driving practice to go from notch 0 to 7 when starting away. On Chiltern its notch 3 or 4 when pulling away and notch up as speed increases. If there is any WSP activity when pulling away the engine will revert to idle and then once the WSP rack has resolved the issue the engine will start to give traction again and rev up.

I remember the days of the old Class 115s, from what I recall of those just going full bore on the throttle seemed to be the general method for getting out of a station. Similarly, I was on 121020 recently down at Bodmin, and that needed basically wellying all the way back up the hill. So much clag!