Class 165/166: perpetually broken front section?

[321Clss93]

First post and topic, so hello to all.

I'll get right on with a question: On the 165/166s, why is the lower front section (I don't know what it's called) always broken?

For over a decade or two I've seen them patched up repeatedly, only to fall apart again soon afterwards. So what actually keeps breaking it?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

 

[455driver]

Got 3 of them today, my best was 7 peasants and one kestrel all in one 2.5 hour round trip, I wasnt happy about hitting the kestrel but even that was a peasants fault, he was dining on a dead one in the 4 foot and was a bit slow getting airbourne.

Yes I know its pheasant with a 'H'!

 

[321Clss93]

I thought birdstrike only affected aircraft?

 

[edwin_m]

^Like

They're not so pretty once they've been splatted by a Networker.

 

[jimm]

First post and topic, so hello to all.

I'll get right on with a question: On the 165/166s, why is the lower front section (I don't know what it's called) always broken?

For over a decade or two I've seen them patched up repeatedly, only to fall apart again soon afterwards. So what actually keeps breaking it?

Don't know how often you are seeing them but they are not always broken. Very rarely actually.

And if it's 'always' happening, how about a more recent picture than one of a livery that diappeared several years ago?

 

[321Clss93]

Don't know how often you are seeing them but they are not always broken. Very rarely actually.

And if it's 'always' happening, how about a more recent picture than one of a livery that diappeared several years ago?

I can only speak for the GWML, but IMO it is often; like every few weeks. Recent pictorial evidence? Alrighty then, I'll give it a go sometime. I just happened to use the first 165 pic available to highlight my point. *shrug*

 

[bengley]

Don't know how often you are seeing them but they are not always broken. Very rarely actually.

And if it's 'always' happening, how about a more recent picture than one of a livery that diappeared several years ago?

google 'class 165' and I think you'll find that the majority of the recent pictures show that either they are broken, or have been patched up.

 

[jimm]

google 'class 165' and I think you'll find that the majority of the recent pictures show that either they are broken, or have been patched up.

Tried that and there seem to be rather more of them intact than broken. It's only a piece of GRP, so not surprising that, as noted above, that if they hit a bit of wildlife at speed, the deflector will sometimes crack.

And I can only speak for Oxford, where I see Turbos all the time.

 

[Captain Chaos]

We tend to hit a fair bit of wildlife on the North Downs, so if they're going to get broken there is a good chance of it happening there.

 

[321Clss93]

So I guess the folks at BREL didn't quite anticipate the 'solidness' of British wildlife when they designed that bit.

 

[73001]

Tried that and there seem to be rather more of them intact than broken. It's only a piece of GRP, so not surprising that, as noted above, that if they hit a bit of wildlife at speed, the deflector will sometimes crack.

And I can only speak for Oxford, where I see Turbos all the time.

Interestingly, if you Google "class 165 oxford", most of the First liveried ones appear to have some sort of repair to this section. But hey, who's counting? You'd think by now they would have perhaps cut it away unless it actually serves some sort of purpose other than cosmetic. Does it keep the bogies cleaner or help clear light snow?

 

[455driver]

You'd think by now they would have perhaps cut it away unless it actually serves some sort of purpose other than cosmetic. Does it keep the bogies cleaner or help clear light snow?

So a bird strike can break it but you think it can clear snow at speed!

 

[cjmillsnun]

It's probably gives some slight aerodynamic improvement by deflecting the air around the first bogie, why they thought the need to bother when the rest of the notworker has the aerodynamics of a breeze block is beyond me.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's probably gives some slight aerodynamic improvement by deflecting the air around the first bogie, why they thought the need to bother when the rest of the notworker has the aerodynamics of a breeze block is beyond me.

...notworker....I like that..

 

[zn1]

front section - i think the front end would be an buckeye fairing or front left, right & centre valence..., that will i think be the BREL defininition, it provides airflow around the body.

any aerodyanmics for a slab fronted vehicle will a bonus, with this bit gone i suspect the air noise under the cab might be loud as it becomes a funnel with this section missing

 

[jimm]

Interestingly, if you Google "class 165 oxford", most of the First liveried ones appear to have some sort of repair to this section. But hey, who's counting? You'd think by now they would have perhaps cut it away unless it actually serves some sort of purpose other than cosmetic. Does it keep the bogies cleaner or help clear light snow?

I'm not counting because I have better things to do. They are not, as suggested by the original poster "always broken".

It's an obstacle deflector, which is why it has to be replaced/repaired. All trains are required to have them since the Polmont incident in 1984 when an Edinburgh-Glasgow push-pull train was derailed by a cow.

 

[bigdelboy]

So long as a 165/166 doesn't hit the pheasant on Jessie's seat ... that would be a problem. luckily a 455 driver shouldn't try to go that way ....

... actually more seriously it is sad when there is any loss of life ... human or creature.

Of course if the beltie's were to get on the line twixt Gomshall and Dorking then I would be hoping the brakes worked!

 

[507 001]

Interestingly, if you Google "class 165 oxford", most of the First liveried ones appear to have some sort of repair to this section. But hey, who's counting? You'd think by now they would have perhaps cut it away unless it actually serves some sort of purpose other than cosmetic. Does it keep the bogies cleaner or help clear light snow?

I'm not counting because I have better things to do. They are not, as suggested by the original poster "always broken".

It's an obstacle deflector, which is why it has to be replaced/repaired. All trains are required to have them since the Polmont incident in 1984 when an Edinburgh-Glasgow push-pull train was derailed by a cow.

Somebody is a little touchy!

Maybe not all the time, but they obviously break fairly regularly!

 

[jimm]

Somebody is a little touchy!

Maybe not all the time, but they obviously break fairly regularly!

The precise quote was, I repeat, "always broken" - but they're not. Yes, it happens, on occasion, never disputed that, but that's a different matter from "always". Unless I just haven't noticed all the dead wildlife piled along the tracks in the Thames Valley and connceting routes.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm not counting because I have better things to do. They are not, as suggested by the original poster "always broken".

It's an obstacle deflector, which is why it has to be replaced/repaired. All trains are required to have them since the Polmont incident in 1984 when an Edinburgh-Glasgow push-pull train was derailed by a cow.

It's not a very good obstacle deflector if it breaks on impact with an obstacle far to small to affect the safety of the train. The obtacle deflectors are much more substantial structures, designed (according to GM/GN2560) to deflect a 100kg obstacle at the train's maximum speed.

 

[jimm]

It's not a very good obstacle deflector if it breaks on impact with an obstacle far to small to affect the safety of the train. The obtacle deflectors are much more substantial structures, designed (according to GM/GN2560) to deflect a 100kg obstacle at the train's maximum speed.

And yet FGW and Chiltern will persist in repairing them, for some reason...

 

[Yew]

And yet FGW and Chiltern will persist in repairing them, for some reason...

Surely it would be cheaper in the long run to make the replacement parts that dont break? maybe made of steel/aluminium? instead of fibreglass?

 

[RPM]

I find it very hard to believe they are designed to act as obstacle deflectors. If they were, then checking them would form part of the train prep procedure. I can say for certain that this is not the case.
In any case they are way too flimsy to deflect anything other than insects. It is purely a decorative valance. FGW may be quick at repairing them but I can tell you that certain Chiltern units have been running round with broken ones for the best part of a decade.
168s had exactly the same problem and the central part of the valance was removed from these units when they had their first refurbishment several years ago.

 

[321Clss93]

Don't know how often you are seeing them but they are not always broken. Very rarely actually.

And if it's 'always' happening, how about a more recent picture than one of a livery that diappeared several years ago?

I'm not counting because I have better things to do. They are not, as suggested by the original poster "always broken".

The precise quote was, I repeat, "always broken" - but they're not. Yes, it happens, on occasion, never disputed that, but that's a different matter from "always".

Alright already, I get the bloody point. So I exaggerated a bit with the wording. "Always" =/= "very often".