Class 159 whining noise

[Peter Sarf]

I live about a mile away from the Brighton main line in Croydon but cannot see it. Through this summer I have noticed a whining noise. Sounded as though the train was slowing down possibly quite quickly. It was a bit like something rubbing (wheel rubbing rail ?). I thought it might be regenerative braking as I seem to recall that some units have started using this. Its by no means all trains so I thought maybe I am noticing 442s. I would not have noticed in the summer of 2012 as there was not much of a summer and I can only hear it outside. This thread is making me wonder if it could be 171s as these are diesel but how similar are they to a 159/158 ?.

 

[starrymarkb]

Scuppers the theory I'd heard then. I think a friend was postulating that it might be some PWM type thing to stop it drawing too much current from the third rail when accelerating and overloading the power...

I wonder if it's to stop them emitting banned frequencies that may interfere with signalling, oscillating either side I know BR had very tight limits on AC motored stock, hence the F1 noises produced by the 323s as they notch around banned frequencies.

Interestingly the Thai 360s don't make the saucer noices which makes me think it might be a UK requirement.

 

[edwin_m]

I wonder if it's to stop them emitting banned frequencies that may interfere with signalling, oscillating either side I know BR had very tight limits on AC motored stock, hence the F1 noises produced by the 323s as they notch around banned frequencies.

Interestingly the Thai 360s don't make the saucer noices which makes me think it might be a UK requirement.

May well be. Also the oscillation means that if it is at a problem frequency it won't sit there for more than a fraction of a second, which may be too short to upset any equipment.

 

[Peter Sarf]

May well be. Also the oscillation means that if it is at a problem frequency it won't sit there for more than a fraction of a second, which may be too short to upset any equipment.

Regarding electrical interference. Was it the Holec (iirc or is it Siemens) traction equipment that passed tests that meant it was allowed to go anywhere. That was rather than the easier test done for individual lines. Perhaps this is the go anywhere feature.

BUT as for 159s and diesel - the thread. Dunno.

 

[samuelmorris]

That idea makes sense for why one unit should have it. But why is it necessary on Desiros when Electrostars don't do it?

 

[edwin_m]

Regarding electrical interference. Was it the Holec (iirc or is it Siemens) traction equipment that passed tests that meant it was allowed to go anywhere. That was rather than the easier test done for individual lines. Perhaps this is the go anywhere feature.

BUT as for 159s and diesel - the thread. Dunno.

Holec did this first and Siemens (and probably everyone else) did it later.

What it actually meant was that it could go anywhere where the track circuits and other systems complied with certain assumptions. So there was still a large amount of work needed to verify the assumptions on all the routes the train was supposed to use - I should know as I spent several monthis on producing a huge database. A lot of equipment didn't comply with Network Rail standards and Network Rail itself didn't know what or where.
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That idea makes sense for why one unit should have it. But why is it necessary on Desiros when Electrostars don't do it?

Each manufacturer has to demonstrate to the satisfaction of Network Rail that their equipment can't generate any interference that will cause wrong side failures in any of the various types of signalling equipment. This needs to remain true both in normal operation and in the event of any credible failure. While the basics are the same different designers will adopt different approaches to controlling inerference and indeed different approaches to driving the motors, and the different sounds of different traction packages probably reflect this.

 

[Uzair]

Any updates on the whining noise? I was on a 455 the other day coming out of Waterloo at the same time as a 159 and my God the whining was loud!

 

[wimbledonpete]

I live by the line at Raynes Park and this whine is definitely noticeable as some 159s go past. I'd assumed it was decelerating as it has a kind of slowing down vibe, if that makes any sense at all.

 

[scotraildriver]

The 158/9 fleet is undergoing an air con upgrade currently over most operators and I suspect this noise MAY be to do with upgraded air con equipment like hydrostatic pumps and associated stuff.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought SWT's fleet already had different aircon to most others anyway, or was that just the original 159s...

 

[Pumbaa]

No, it's been previously upgraded so it actually works. Although the vestibules get very hot/freezing as appropriate to the season.

 

[TEW]

I think that's a problem with all 158s. I certainly remember catching some FGW 158s with lovely cool saloons but roasting hot vestibules.

 

[Railengineer]

Any updates on the whining noise? I was on a 455 the other day coming out of Waterloo at the same time as a 159 and my God the whining was loud!

I answered this question on 19th November. Problem here is people dont read the comments properly and keep going 'off thread'.
Question is answered so thread should be ended:roll:

 

[Lrd]

I answered this question on 19th November. Problem here is people dont read the comments properly and keep going 'off thread'.
Question is answered so thread should be ended:roll:

I did see the answer when you posted it and wondered when (or rather if) others would notice but they never did. :roll:

 

[samuelmorris]

Yeah same, I was too lazy to post a 'reminder'

 

[Uzair]

I answered this question on 19th November. Problem here is people dont read the comments properly and keep going 'off thread'.
Question is answered so thread should be ended:roll:

I would like to offer you my most sincere apologies for having missed your post on 19th November. In future I'll ensure I'm not so ignorant on this forum.

There's no reason for the thread to end. Threads aren't to be answered and then ended. This is all a discussion.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes. Including a bundle of paperwork for the crew in case anything goes pop!

I was wondering what was happening with that, as it had all gone pretty quiet. Is it actually in use yet?

This isn't a result of the changing of the gearboxes - the only South West Trains DMU to be fitted with the ZF Eco Drive unit at the moment is 158885.

Slightly off topic for a moment but this week 158885 is up to some unusual turns - During this weeks storms, one of the 159/1s driving cars came into contact with a tree on the WOE. This has now been taken out of the set and replaced with one of the driving cars of 158885. So, one car with the new gearbox and two with the old - that could be interesting!

 

[455driver]

I thought only 1 coach of 885 had been fitted with the new gearbox?

 

[TEW]

Yes it has. The other carriage has been placed in several different hybrids recently because of the troubles with the new ZF gearbox.

 

[159jim]

Hi all

Sorry for the late reply and to dig up this thread, thanks for the info and opinions.

But the last couple of trips I've spent on the 159's, the noise is no longer made. I wonder why it no longer appens!

Anyway some interesting info and opinion that I have just read!


Thanks,
Jim.

 

[Railengineer]

Hi all

Sorry for the late reply and to dig up this thread, thanks for the info and opinions.

But the last couple of trips I've spent on the 159's, the noise is no longer made. I wonder why it no longer appens!

Anyway some interesting info and opinion that I have just read!


Thanks,
Jim.

Because the noise is from the Radiators when the weather is colder the heat rejection requirement is less so the fans run less (remember the thread was started in the warmer months). Also I understand the radiators concerned are not fitted to every vehicle so you may have been on a couple that dont make the noise anyway.
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Yes it has. The other carriage has been placed in several different hybrids recently because of the troubles with the new ZF gearbox.

My spies tell me there is nothing wrong with the ZF box and it has been performing well since it was fitted. Where exactly do you get your information from, or are you just surmising for effect?

 

[TEW]

Just heard that it's had problems from other people. The carriage fitted with the ZF gearbox has certainly spent various periods of time out of traffic.

 

[Railengineer]

Just heard that it's had problems from other people. The carriage fitted with the ZF gearbox has certainly spent various periods of time out of traffic.

Always dangerous listening to rumour and conjecture, much more reliable to deal with facts! One car of 158885 has been stopped for some time awaiting spare wheels because of a shortage and it happened to be the car that had the ZF box. I am told the unit is at Bournemouth again for its second box.

 

[TEW]

Ah right, that makes a lot of sense. You can see why lots of people have assumed the problems have been related to the ZF gearbox as it's been the car stopped.

 

[455driver]

Always dangerous listening to rumour and conjecture,

Always better to listen to a new forum member who may or may not be a rail engineer isnt it?

I could join a shipping forum as "Canberra Captain" but it doesnt mean I am one!

Edit-

If it is on its second box how many miles has it run since the first one was fitted?
I thought the current ones were guaranteed for 500,000 miles?

 

[patstonuk]

Always dangerous listening to rumour and conjecture, much more reliable to deal with facts! One car of 158885 has been stopped for some time awaiting spare wheels because of a shortage and it happened to be the car that had the ZF box. I am told the unit is at Bournemouth again for its second box.

So is that a second (ie replacement) box for that vehicle or, as you say, a second one for the unit (ie so that both vehicles are fitted)?

 

[Railengineer]

So is that a second (ie replacement) box for that vehicle or, as you say, a second one for the unit (ie so that both vehicles are fitted)?

I meant for its second (vehicle) gearbox to be fitted. I think it is out and about now as an all ZF unit.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Always better to listen to a new forum member who may or may not be a rail engineer isnt it?

I could join a shipping forum as "Canberra Captain" but it doesnt mean I am one!

Edit-

If it is on its second box how many miles has it run since the first one was fitted?
I thought the current ones were guaranteed for 500,000 miles?

See previous post. Unit now has 2 ZF boxes. Not sure how many miles they are set to run for but will try and find out.

 

[RJ]

I read on another forum that the 6th gear is locked out. Is this true and if so, why?

 

[Railengineer]

I meant for its second (vehicle) gearbox to be fitted. I think it is out and about now as an all ZF unit.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


See previous post. Unit now has 2 ZF boxes. Not sure how many miles they are set to run for but will try and find out.

i am told this unit is to run at least 50K miles (for as long as that takes?)