Class 158s taking over the marches!

[strettonarms96]

Today I used the 1540 from Shrewsbury to Ludlow (Manchester - Milford Haven) and then the 1617 from ludlow to Craven Arms (bound for Manchester). Both units were Class 158! Seeing as though all marches services are diagrammed for 175s this seems odd as I though ATW had no spare stock, they obviously do or otherwise the 158s would be in use elsewhere.

Anyone have any thoughts on this and why 158s are appearing on north wales/ Manchester to South Wales so much.

 

[Parallel]

To be fair, Arriva probably don't have any "spare" stock just lying about, but I imagine at a push they could free up a couple of units if they were really needed. A lot of pacers and some 150s work doubled up on the valley lines, and these units can be split and then work two separate diagrams, freeing up a 150 to possibly cover for a 158, which itself can then cover for a 175. 150s do turn up on the Marches line from time to time too (more so on Sundays.)

 

[edwin_m]

How do the 150s that work the Borderlands and Conwy Valley lines find their way back to their base in Cardiff?

 

[strettonarms96]

To be fair, Arriva probably don't have any "spare" stock just lying about, but I imagine at a push they could free up a couple of units if they were really needed. A lot of pacers and some 150s work doubled up on the valley lines, and these units can be split and then work two separate diagrams, freeing up a 150 to possibly cover for a 158, which itself can then cover for a 175. 150s do turn up on the Marches line from time to time too (more so on Sundays.)

Yes 150s are more common now also.
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How do the 150s that work the Borderlands and Conwy Valley lines find their way back to their base in Cardiff?

That's a good question, anybody know?

 

[Bevan Price]

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwin_m View Post
How do the 150s that work the Borderlands and Conwy Valley lines find their way back to their base in Cardiff?
That's a good question, anybody know?
-----------------------------------

If you look at the timetable, at each end of the day, there are a few short workings between Crewe or Shrewsbury and South Wales. These could be used for getting units to/from Cardiff. (And don't forget that another 150 working can be the Crewe - Chester shuttles.)

 

[berneyarms]

The 06:10 Shrewsbury/Maesteg is used to swap the 158s to South Wales, but I'm not sure which working they're rostered on to get back to North Wales.

I'm pretty sure the 21:55 Cardiff/Crewe is used to swap 150s to North Wales and the 23:08 Shrewsbury/Cardiff is used to swap them back to South Wales.

The 153s swap via the HoWL each night.

 

[PHILIPE]

Today I used the 1540 from Shrewsbury to Ludlow (Manchester - Milford Haven) and then the 1617 from ludlow to Craven Arms (bound for Manchester). Both units were Class 158! Seeing as though all marches services are diagrammed for 175s this seems odd as I though ATW had no spare stock, they obviously do or otherwise the 158s would be in use elsewhere.

Anyone have any thoughts on this and why 158s are appearing on north wales/ Manchester to South Wales so much.

I wouldn't complain. Obviously no 158s available on the day so be happy that unsuitable 150s didn't work them. The 3 x 158s that work round Cardiff are often covered by 150s so possibly that happened.
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The 06:10 Shrewsbury/Maesteg is used to swap the 158s to South Wales, but I'm not sure which working they're rostered on to get back to North Wales.

I'm pretty sure the 21:55 Cardiff/Crewe is used to swap 150s to North Wales and the 23:08 Crewe/Cardiff is used to swap them back to South Wales.

The 153s swap via the HoWL each night.

Correct. The 158 returns north on 20 17 Cardiff to Manchester after 3 days in South Wales which includes trips to Fishguard. Maesteg, Cheltenham,Ebbw Vale and Pembroke Dock.

 

[strettonarms96]

I wouldn't complain. Obviously no 158s available on the day so be happy that unsuitable 150s didn't work them. The 3 x 158s that work round Cardiff are often covered by 150s so possibly that happened.

Not complaining, I prefer 158s to 175s and think they are well suited to the line.

 

[Bevan Price]

Not complaining, I prefer 158s to 175s and think they are well suited to the line.

O.K., But some services would be better using 4 cars not 2.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

O.K., But some services would be better using 4 cars not 2.

How often do the 2-car, rather than the 3-car Class 175, run on the Marches Line and is one particular terminal destination more prone to having 2-car units than others ?

 

[ValleyLines142]

I wouldn't complain. Obviously no 158s available on the day so be happy that unsuitable 150s didn't work them. The 3 x 158s that work round Cardiff are often covered by 150s so possibly that happened.

Definitely. I love the 150s but they're not ideal on such long distance journeys (which is why I avoid travelling up to Manchester on a Sunday as many of the diagrams are booked for a mixture of 150s and 153s).

Correct. The 158 returns north on 20 17 Cardiff to Manchester after 3 days in South Wales which includes trips to Fishguard. Maesteg, Cheltenham,Ebbw Vale and Pembroke Dock.

The 2017 Cardiff to Manchester on Monday was a pair of 150s (150229 + 150264).

How often do the 2-car, rather than the 3-car Class 175, run on the Marches Line and is one particular terminal destination more prone to having 2-car units than others ?

I believe there are only two 2-car 175 diagrams on the Cardiff to Manchester services, and I believe there are three 2-car 175 diagrams on the Cardiff to Holyhead services too.

 

[edwin_m]

The 06:10 Shrewsbury/Maesteg is used to swap the 158s to South Wales, but I'm not sure which working they're rostered on to get back to North Wales.

I'm pretty sure the 21:55 Cardiff/Crewe is used to swap 150s to North Wales and the 23:08 Shrewsbury/Cardiff is used to swap them back to South Wales.

The 153s swap via the HoWL each night.

Thanks to you and others for the replies to my question. This prompts another one - where in North Wales are the 153s used?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Thanks to you and others for the replies to my question. This prompts another one - where in North Wales are the 153s used?

Mainly the Heart of Wales Line. Not sure if they're used on the Conwy Valley Line, or is this exclusively 150s now?

Three of the eight 153s that ATW have in their fleet are used on the Cardiff Valleys Line (two on the City Line, the other on the Bay Line).

 

[Welshman]

Mainly the Heart of Wales Line. Not sure if they're used on the Conwy Valley Line, or is this exclusively 150s now?

After recent intervention by the Conwy Valley Rail Users' Partnership [or whatever it's officially called], the 153s were removed in favour of a Cl.150, which comes out as empty stock from Crewe in the morning, and works the Conwy Valley all day, returning as the 2145 Llandudno-Crewe.

Not exactly in North Wales, but I think 153s are also used on the Shrewsbury-Crewe stoppers.

 

[PHILIPE]

Conwy Valley exclusively 150s as 153s deemed unsuitable. Was 153s in Winter only with 150s in Summer. Only 2x153s on Cardiff Valleys since late Summer last year when 1 replaced by Pacer for Fishguard strengthening and now for Ebbw Vale strengthening.

 

[DarloRich]

How do the 150s that work the Borderlands and Conwy Valley lines find their way back to their base in Cardiff?

Helicopter?

Is there not a long run early in the morning along the lines of Shrewsbury - Swansea? I saw it come into Shrews, formed of a 150, whilst on my rover

 

[berneyarms]

Helicopter?

Is there not a long run early in the morning along the lines of Shrewsbury - Swansea? I saw it come into Shrews, formed of a 150, whilst on my rover

They switch at night - see post #6.

That working is from the overnight boat train to Fishguard which forms the first Swansea-Shrewsbury working of the day. It then returns back along the HoWL to Cardiff.

At that stage all the other Class 150s are busy elsewhere.
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I think I'm correct in saying that North Wales requires:

2 x 150 for the Wrexham-Bidston line
1 x 150 for the Conwy Valley line

These travel north via the 21:55 Cardiff/Crewe and having spent three days on the above, return via the 23:08 Shrewsbury/Cardiff.

The Class 153 set requirements are:

2 x 153 for the HoWL
1 x 153 for the Shrewsbury-Crewe shuttles
1 x 153 for the Chester-Crewe shuttles

They travel up on the 18:20 Swansea/Shrewsbury and return on the 05:16 Shrewsbury/Swansea having spent a couple of days on the shuttles above.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Conwy Valley exclusively 150s as 153s deemed unsuitable. Was 153s in Winter only with 150s in Summer. Only 2x153s on Cardiff Valleys since late Summer last year when 1 replaced by Pacer for Fishguard strengthening and now for Ebbw Vale strengthening.

Except the Fishguard Flyer isn't a Pacer, but is either a 150 or a 158.

 

[berneyarms]

Except the Fishguard Flyer isn't a Pacer, but is either a 150 or a 158.

He meant that the Fishguard flyer was strengthened by the addition of a class 153 during the summer, and that 153 is now used to strengthen Ebbw Vale services.

That 153 was taken from the Cardiff valley lines and replaced there by a pacer.

 

[ValleyLines142]

He meant that the Fishguard flyer was strengthened by the addition of a class 153 during the summer, and that 153 is now used to strengthen Ebbw Vale services.

That 153 was taken from the Cardiff valley lines and replaced there by a pacer.

Oh I see, I missed that bit. Thank you.

So the City Line is now three Pacers and one 153?

I would love to see an ECS movement consisting of all eight ATW 153s attached together. That would be INSANE!

 

[PHILIPE]

They switch at night - see post #6.

That working is from the overnight boat train to Fishguard which forms the first Swansea-Shrewsbury working of the day. It then returns back along the HoWL to Cardiff.

At that stage all the other Class 150s are busy elsewhere.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think I'm correct in saying that North Wales requires:

2 x 150 for the Wrexham-Bidston line
1 x 150 for the Conwy Valley line

These travel north via the 21:55 Cardiff/Crewe and having spent three days on the above, return via the 23:08 Shrewsbury/Cardiff.

The Class 153 set requirements are:

2 x 153 for the HoWL
1 x 153 for the Shrewsbury-Crewe shuttles
1 x 153 for the Chester-Crewe shuttles

They travel up on the 18:20 Swansea/Shrewsbury and return on the 05:16 Shrewsbury/Swansea having spent a couple of days on the shuttles above.

The Chester to Crewe shuttle is a 150 mixed in with the others in the North.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oh I see, I missed that bit. Thank you.

So the City Line is now three Pacers and one 153?

I would love to see an ECS movement consisting of all eight ATW 153s attached together. That would be INSANE!

No. The City Line is 2xPacers and 1x153, only 3 units required. There are some changes in the evening perhaps but no more than 3 units are required at any one time.

 

[ValleyLines142]

No. The City Line is 2xPacers and 1x153, only 3 units required. There are some changes in the evening perhaps but no more than 3 units are required at any one time.

Ah, I think I'm getting confused with the 1842 Bridgend to Aberdare splitting at Cardiff, with the front portion continuing to Aberdare and the rear portion going to Coryton. But beforehand one unit comes off the City Line on the 1904 ex-Radyr.

 

[berneyarms]

The Chester to Crewe shuttle is a 150 mixed in with the others in the North.

My mistake - thanks for that.

So it's 4 x 150:
2 for Wrexham-Bidston
1 for Conwy Valley line
1 for Crewe-Chester

with one other Class 150 making a round trip on the HoWL in the morning from Swansea to Shrewsbury and back.

and 3 x 153:
2 for HoWL
1 for Shrewsbury-Crewe

 

[edwin_m]

My mistake - thanks for that.

So it's 4 x 150:
2 for Wrexham-Bidston
1 for Conwy Valley line
1 for Crewe-Chester

with one other Class 150 making a round trip on the HoWL in the morning from Swansea to Shrewsbury and back.

The HoWL 150 must be the service that leaves Swansea at silly o'clock in the morning. When I visited last month I was on the next train from Swansea and passed it en route.

Is one of the other 150s at Shrewsbury when the HoWL one arrives? If so it could be swapped as another way of getting a unit to and from Cardiff.

 

[berneyarms]

The HoWL 150 must be the service that leaves Swansea at silly o'clock in the morning. When I visited last month I was on the next train from Swansea and passed it en route.

Is one of the other 150s at Shrewsbury when the HoWL one arrives? If so it could be swapped as another way of getting a unit to and from Cardiff.

Yes it operates it after doing the overnight boat train to/from Fishguard.

As I've posted above the other 150s are very busy by then, so a swap is not on the cards. It's just a straight return trip on the HoWL for the unit. The units swap in the evening as posted above.

 

[DarloRich]

They switch at night - see post #6.

That working is from the overnight boat train to Fishguard which forms the first Swansea-Shrewsbury working of the day. It then returns back along the HoWL to Cardiff.

At that stage all the other Class 150s are busy elsewhere.

Is that the case? That is some working on a 150!

 

[berneyarms]

Is that the case? That is some working on a 150!

Well I'm not going to post it if it wasn't!!

You can follow the train workings using realtime trains - it's not that hard to do. You can see which platform a train arrives into and then see what the next working from there is. It is (more often than not) that same set.

As far as I can tell the set spends the previous day travelling to Fishguard in the morning, and then several trips along the Pembroke branch, before doing the overnight boat train and then the round trip to Shrewsbury which finishes back in Cardiff.